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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

All school toilets in Brighton to become gender neutral

88 replies

SapphosRock · 10/06/2021 18:21

I'm not happy about this at all.

I have a DD and keep thinking how she would feel changing a pad in year 7 or 8 with a group of year 11 boys in the same toilets as her.

It's always the girls who lose out by being 'inclusive'.

Any suggestions on what I can do?

www.theargus.co.uk/news/19361363.gender-neutral-toilets-introduced-brighton-schools/

OP posts:
Butterfly44 · 10/06/2021 19:22

This is fine... in addition. So girls/boys/disabled/neutral. Wouldn't want to take away single sex toilets - what about their rights?

esterwin · 10/06/2021 19:29

I think separate wall to floor cubicles sounds way better than the girls toilets at my school which were ground zero for bullying.

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 10/06/2021 19:35

@esterwin

I think separate wall to floor cubicles sounds way better than the girls toilets at my school which were ground zero for bullying.
I'd love to see something being done to address the actual bullying. Treat the cause rather than the symptom maybe.
AmyRex · 10/06/2021 19:36

Pathetic! Glad I don't live in Brighton.

When we're dealing with such huge global and environmental issues, what an amazing thing to have achieved not. I hate public toilets which are used by men, they're filthy, men pee standing up girls are likely to sit down, I'd like to know what the increase in UTI will be in Brighton secondary girls.

Fewer cars in the centre of town, unisex public toilets, women and girls are being slowly banished to the home.

the worst part about this is that it's that woke goody two-shoes are driving this feeling smug and morally 'good'. Pathetic.

Imasoulman · 10/06/2021 19:47

Single sex toilets are not being removed, these gender neutral toilets are in addition.

I thought this is exactly what the feminist movement wanted.

The Argus have cherry picked that report for a reaction.

Moorlander · 10/06/2021 19:47

The toilets at our local school (far, far from Brighton, built over 5 years ago) have single toilet 'rooms', all with washbasins opening directly onto the corridor. There are many situations where I would fight hard against mixed sex spaces but I really don't see that as an issue here, children access the toilet straight from the corridor, one at a time. I think that it is a much better situation than my experience at school where I was scared to enter the girls toilets. These new style toilets feel safer to me in terms of bullying etc. If it were PE changing rooms my view would be very different!

AfternoonToffee · 10/06/2021 19:54

@Imasoulman

Single sex toilets are not being removed, these gender neutral toilets are in addition.

I thought this is exactly what the feminist movement wanted.

The Argus have cherry picked that report for a reaction.

My thoughts exactly in regards to the paper. Even just having "uniform" is what is called for on here. I know it is B&H and perhaps I am being a little too trusting but it actually might be paving a sensible path.
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/06/2021 20:01

If its in addition to existing single sex toilets then I can’t see a problem with it

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 10/06/2021 20:02

Agree with this- as an addition is fine.

FastandLoose · 10/06/2021 20:10

I’m fully supportive of single sex facilities, but in addition to those this seems like a sensible idea, surely?

Moorlander · 10/06/2021 20:37

I'm having to eat my words tonight! Just spoke to my child at the school I mentioned earlier. Turns out the aforementioned toilets started out as unisex but are now split into boys and girls (equally) with 1 additional unisex toilet. I am not sure of the reasoning? Urine splashing? Other concerns? Anyway, I had misrepresented the situation Blush

Thelnebriati · 10/06/2021 20:45

Perhaps you should ask Mumsnet to amend the misleading thread title, @SapphosRock
The new toilets are in addition to the single sex ones required by law.

FlyPassed · 10/06/2021 21:11

If I remember rightly from previous nonsense with Brighton council and the schools toolkit, they basically said it's voluntary guidance and up to schools if they want to follow it.

Those that do need to do their own impact assessments as apparently the fact it's "just guidance [shrug]" means the council haven't bothered and schools must take on this responsibility.

I would ask what consultation they have done with the other children, and the parents. Copies of their risk impact assessment and equality impact assessment and confirmation that they have the necessary insurance cover.

GreenTeaPingPong · 10/06/2021 21:18

Much as I dislike this 'toolkit', it isn't saying all school toilets but that some gender neutral should be available. The issue is probably that schools can't afford to convert or build new ones.

SapphosRock · 10/06/2021 22:05

Oh as an addition would be fine. Excellent in fact.

How practical is it to install a completely new set of toilets in all schools though? I'm not a plumber / architect but it sounds like a headache and not easy to achieve.

I fear that the girls toilets will become the gender neutral ones so schools meet the requirements.

Thank you Erikrie for sharing the WPUK link that is very helpful and reassuring.

OP posts:
Changemusthappen · 10/06/2021 22:12

Given todays report regarding sexual harassment in schools, ALL toilets should be single sex. We need to uphold 'sex'. Perhaps boys need to understand from an early age that transgender women will be in their space. Lets normalise this, let's educate boys to accept this as normal instead of making girls/women budge over.

CallMeNutribullet · 10/06/2021 22:21

If they're floor to ceiling with a waste bin they're not really sharing a space.

ChristinaXYZ · 11/06/2021 09:51

So not one of those teenage boys who ask for nude pics will ever think to install a spy camera? Or have the skill to do it? So naïve.

If they can never be in the girls' space at all they cannot do this without risking being caught. Floor to ceiling cubicles and permission to be there protects the potential electronic voyeur - they have access and privacy to set up their kit. Most boys would not do this but in a secondary school of 1800 students with 900 boys it only takes one and dozens (maybe hundreds depends on how long before it is found) of girls will have their young lives extremely seriously affected.

Many schools use electronic systems - cards or finger prints to pay for lunch or access the computer suite. If all toilets had this - you could only get in swiping your card - and they were single sex, then they would be much safer. The old style school bully hanging out in the loo would stop too because heads of year would know that he or she was in there and not in lessons or occupying the room unreasonably long like it was the base of their crime empire and they could be moved on. Schools mostly have CCTV on their corridors these days too so kids borrowing or misusing access cards could be picked up too. It is not the 70s any more!

LeoOrTheo · 11/06/2021 09:57

Wow, swiping in and logging loo visits....... no thank you.

sailmeaway · 11/06/2021 10:07

I'm not sure how scaremongering like this is helpful.
It's not ALL toilets, it is advice that some toilets should be for anyone to use. There are still girls and boys in Brighton Schools, and in reality there are also some 'For everyone' toilets too. There will always be separate loos.
It's more ADDITIONAL provision, which is being asked for by some pupils.

sailmeaway · 11/06/2021 10:12

Besides, The Argus isn't what you'd call the most reliable news source, it's renowned in Brighton for being a bit of a rag and often completely inaccurate.

OhWhyNot · 11/06/2021 10:22

What if a young girl wants to ask her friend if she has a pad/tampon she can have where is the space for them to have such conversations. Or is struggling with period pains and her friends are supporting her. Men don’t realise abs many just don’t cate how much girls and women relax and talk in female only spaces as we feel totally safe

And I’m quite sure many teenage boys do not want to be present during that conversation

Whatwouldscullydo · 11/06/2021 10:24

I know additiknal space is Usually suggested as the answer and if we were talking about public toilets and toilets in the work place where there are adults using it that would be fine.

In a school however we are dealing with children. Children need adults to step in and uphold safeguarding where they don't have the ability to notice they need it or the life skills ajd experience to make the informed decision themselves.

In a school I would worry about children being forced to prove themselves as allies using them. Or being places in danger by doing so believing its solving the problem

Fully enclosed units whilst have theor advantages also present the danger of a child passing out /collapsing and no one being any the wiser. Especially as children will not necessarily have had a long time to learn to manage their diabetes asthma or allergies..

They also have the danger of being shoved in and assaulted without anyone knowing.

The first layer of protection of being able to challenge someone of the opposite sex from being there has been removed. There is also the issue of spy cameras which can now be purchased on amazon or ebay in.seconds.

Adults need to learn when it's appropriate to say know. Because even if it upsets children and makes them angry it's sometimes just something you have to do to keep them.safe.

And what may well happen is boys have the boys space and the mixed sex space and girls only have the one space.so again girls lose out on the chance of extra facilities due to biological needs they take longer and always need nore than what they have. But instead anything extra that gets built is something that will likely just he handed over to the boys.

peachescariad · 11/06/2021 10:26

Completely contained Mixed sex toilet blocks; which are being discussed here, have a mix of pros and cons.
I work in a secondary school and the girls loos are always a favoured place for girls to hang out together at breaks to do whatever they like to do (usually a sneaky phone check, hair, makeup, chat etc). If someone in a loo is caught short with her period and needs some sanpro then she just asks her friend outside to pass her something. This would be difficult in mixed sex toilet block. No girl wnats to be heard shouting 'I've just come on, anyone you got a tampon?'
We've also had to several incidents when students have collapsed in the cubicle; open top and bottom of doors and side partitions, whereby their mate was able to look under door almost immediately and could see what had happened and get help.
Sadly it will be the girls who will be affected and suffer the most.....again.

Lonel · 11/06/2021 10:30

I really can't see an issue.
It really doesn't matter if you can't see an issue. What we know is that a significant proportion of girls do have an issue and if they don't feel comfortable using the toilets they will drink less so they don't have to use them or stay at home when tgey have their periods. So they are not fit for purpose.

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