All school toilets in Brighton to become gender neutral

[SapphosRock]

I'm not happy about this at all.

I have a DD and keep thinking how she would feel changing a pad in year 7 or 8 with a group of year 11 boys in the same toilets as her.

It's always the girls who lose out by being 'inclusive'.

Any suggestions on what I can do?

www.theargus.co.uk/news/19361363.gender-neutral-toilets-introduced-brighton-schools/

@RadandMad

Oh, hang on, I see you said the cubicle have separate washing facilities in them. I don't really understand this. Why does there need to be cubicles at all then? Why not just have a separate loos accessed from the corridor?

That's what they are

My DC's school has mixed sex toilet facilities, what this means is a block of cubicles that open onto the corridor.

I wouldn't want to use toilets that boys/men had used anyway tbh. I will clean up after my 6 yr old DS but not prepared to do it for anyone else.

In my first workplace, the men used to find it funny to use the women's toilet and leave it in a disgusting state, just for the fun of it.

@EsmaCannonball

Anyone who thinks floor-to-ceiling stalls are the solution needs to be aware of autogynephile behaviour in mixed-sex facilities. As well as those who place hidden cameras there are also those who deliberately piss on the floor or wank onto things other people will have to touch, sometimes filming themselves as they do so. In a school setting a floor-to-ceiling stall isn't going to prevent a boy dragging or following a girl into a cubicle. It isn't going to stop a group of boys hanging around outside and humiliating a girl as she uses the toilet.

This.

@DirectionsForUse

Does it? You'd be in there on your own with the waves onto the corridor.

As I said, there were plenty of assaults in the girls loos when I was at school. This sounds far preferable to me.

I also don't believe for a second that any of this is being done with the aim of stopping bullying/assaults. It's to not hurt the feelings of a tiny tiny tiny percentage of the population and put their needs ahead of 50% of us.

My son tells me that the new gender neutral toilets built in school extension over lockdown aren't gender neutral any more, but divided into boys and girls. According to him this was because "nobody wanted to go in them". He was really not keen about sharing with girls, too embarrassing apparently, and also completely understood why girls wouldn't want boys in there.

Far, far easier for duty staff to supervise these kinds of toilets too

@EndoplasmicReticulum

My son tells me that the new gender neutral toilets built in school extension over lockdown aren't gender neutral any more, but divided into boys and girls. According to him this was because "nobody wanted to go in them". He was really not keen about sharing with girls, too embarrassing apparently, and also completely understood why girls wouldn't want boys in there.

Actually this too- boys and men understandably have reasons for not wanting to share with women too. Different reasons but still equally valid.

@DirectionsForUse

Women need separate spaces. I would not want to use any public toilet and men be in the same space as me.

Men won't be in the same space as you. It's a self contained cubicle.

And what if they follow you in and shut the door behind you both? Bit naive to think this wouldn't happen.

I don't think it's being done to reduce bullying either but that is happy consequence.

But that could happen in literally any room in school

Pisses me off when they call them 'gender neutral'. No they are MIXED SEX.

Single sex toilets are already gender neutral. Female toilets are for females, regardless of their presentation, not just for those who wear dresses or make up.

So why add a whole load of convenient new places with lockable doors?

Why do you think it's being done then @DirectionsForUse?

Boys could just as easily follow the into the girls loos and lock the door.

It won't be perfect but on balance I do think it will be preferable to the current style toilet block and as I said makes supervision a whole lot easier.

My preference would be these kinds of toilets marked separately male and female, but no one was going to spend that money "just" to reduce bullying.

I suspect in practice, as with PP's child's school, the signage will be changed in time and that's what we'll end up with.

@DirectionsForUse

Boys could just as easily follow the into the girls loos and lock the door.

It won't be perfect but on balance I do think it will be preferable to the current style toilet block and as I said makes supervision a whole lot easier.

My preference would be these kinds of toilets marked separately male and female, but no one was going to spend that money "just" to reduce bullying.

I suspect in practice, as with PP's child's school, the signage will be changed in time and that's what we'll end up with.

A lot less easily!

Ffs has noone heard of "designing out crime" in building and urban planning design? Design is supposed to make crimes HARDER to commit, not easier!!!

There’s a museum near me that just has Toilets. Aeroplanes just have Toilets. Many small cafes just have single Toilet. They’ve been around for... always. It’s the name that seems to change things.?
Oh and this happened in a ‘safe space’ 🤷‍♀️

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-56430523.amp

I have said this so many times on 2 different toilet threads but these are the main points:

1. Where do you go if you feel ill? The toilet

My friends and I saved a young women who had collapsed and was unconscious. I saw her foot sticking out of the gap and we shimmed over the top and opened the door from the inside. She needed vomit clearing out of her mouth.

Epilepsy and heart conditions affect children too. And self harming. Time is vital if they collapse.

In a fire drill, how long does a teacher wait by a locked door if they don’t know if anyone is even in it.

1. Sexual assaults and rape. One rape per school day is reported to have happened INSIDE a school each school day. In is not a good idea to have mix-sexed toilets for these reasons.

1. Practicality of smells intensifying in a small enclosed place and the stigma thereof.

1. Hygiene - both for girls sanitary wear and also you can’t mop a floor as effectively so it will get really crusty around the door and wall bottoms, causing the doors to expand and jam as you’ll need a very small gap to prevent phones being used to spy.

[quote Joeblack066]There’s a museum near me that just has Toilets. Aeroplanes just have Toilets. Many small cafes just have single Toilet. They’ve been around for... always. It’s the name that seems to change things.?
Oh and this happened in a ‘safe space’ 🤷‍♀️

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-56430523.amp[/quote]
Yeah... and I hate using toilets like that and avoid them if possible

@RadandMad

Oh, hang on, I see you said the cubicle have separate washing facilities in them. I don't really understand this. Why does there need to be cubicles at all then? Why not just have a separate loos accessed from the corridor?

That is what it will be.

It's rows of toilets opening directly into the corridor, as DDA toilets in schools already do (and are unisex).

I assume you work for Brighton council as you seem sure that every single school will redesign their existing toilets so they are like this. At huge expense.

Or are you assuming they'll all open onto the corridor?

"Under the new guidance it is stated that educational settings “should provide pupils and students with a mixture of access to toilets”."

This is what the article says, this is the third space, there will still be single sex toilets.

Its not bloody safe!!!! Sexual abuse in schools is all over the news today.
Does nobody have a fucking clue anymore.

@DirectionsForUse

Waves? How did that happen. Door.

I've just been involved in the planning of a new school building like this. It's rows of toilets opening directly into the corridor, as DDA toilets in schools already do (and are unisex).

This sounds fine. The only downside is more pee on the floor than usual.

And it says "should include" not that every toilet will be like this.

If you want a third space this is how it is likely to be, or do others have some very different idea about how a 3rd space should work?