Nicole Smallman and Bibaa - man accused of their killing in court

[ArabellaScott]

Trial set to last for four weeks.

RIP, Nicole and Bibaa. Thinking of their family and friends.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57377414

Unwell enough to leave out a pact with a devil.

Well enough to try to cover up what he’d done.

Who is to say that someone couldn’t provide a reason to get leniency (in advance of a wicked act) just in case they were caught?

Those poor young women. Their vibrant lives taken away so terribly.

Anti work yy.

The fact he was to kill women has been reported but with no comment. Didn't escape me for sure.

Redcurrant, given the appalling actions by the police and the media interest etc. It would cause outrage if he was deemed mentally ill such that he should not stand trial. It's a political move I think. An arse covering thing. We've got him! See the legal system work.

Putting him in a secure MH facility with no trial would not play well.

So he's on trial.

I mean I don't know but these docs don't sound hastily cobbled together for an excuse. His mental health must be in doubt. But, no mention of it.

I am cynical but stuff like this has happened before.

In my honest view. And I don't know. But for the family him being very unwell would feel like an explanation. Rather than. He did it for another reason which is... What? Random? I hope that isn't a crass thing to say. People who are mentally very ill in a way that leads them to commit extreme crimes, and I think this is true please correct me if not. Can be held in secure facilities indefinitely. And presumably get some treatment.

I think whole life terms are not legal now for prison. And tbh if he is that ill it's not right for him, the prison staff or the other prisoners to put him in the general population. And then releasing him when times up, assuming he hasn't killed himself or others, and with no treatment.

That is all my opinion.

The real problem in this case, as ever. Are the structures and forces that keep fucking up over and over and over again.

This was the met. The met are a disaster and have been for decades. Rotten to the core imo.

You see I don't get that.

If he's mentally ill he's mentally ill.

Secure psychiatric facilities for those who have committed awful crimes exist. And they can keep them there forever.

That sounds fine to me.

Because I don't know obv but he sounds like he's very mentally unwell.

Putting him in Broadmoor for life is a bad thing? Why?

He's clearly mentally ill, surely. I know it can be argued that all murderers are. But this demon stuff. That's not a sign he's operating with full faculties surely.

Why did the demon not tell him to sacrifice half a dozen really huge, fit, scary blokes with "HATE" tattooed on both sets of knuckles and anger management issues? It's a bit odd how all these mentally ill men snap and attack women instead of the big scary looking men or hear voices in their head telling them to kill women rather than big strong men.

Well sure.

The fact that women should be sacrificed is hardly a surprise surely.

Doesn't mean he's not mentally ill though.

Why is Broadmoor till he dies a worse option than 30 years out on 15 or whatever?

In this case though

The fact it's been reported but there's no reports of him having mental health assessments is a bit odd, isn't it?

I agree that loads of criminals esp men who hurt women and girls go for diminished responsibility as an excuse that works too often.

It's not been mentioned though.

The other point is if he has no one in the background looking after him- family etc. Then he will have been given a shit lawyer by the powers that be.

I mean sure maybe he's not ill.

I know if my kids were killed it would be easier if it was an insane person rather than someone who actively chose to do that.

I could be wrong obv. But it's weird that there's no mention of mental state with the reporting of the pact with the demon stuff.

The met are in the shit with this case bigtime.

They need the. We caught him and follow the trial in the papers and he got life.

Carting him off to a secure facility for an unspecified amount of time would not work for their image.

I also wonder what contact he has had with police, SS etc before, if any. MH services.

Maybe all this will come out at the trial.

I could well be wrong obv but I know the met and I don't trust them.

That's all because I can't post within guidelines what I want to say.

RIP Nicole and Bibaa. My heart goes out to their mum, and other family and friends, having this devastation and now having to go through the trial a year later.

I too was surprised to read this was a stranger murder after the lack of fuss over their deaths.

The contrast between Nicole and Bibaa joyfully dancing and what happened to them afterwards is too much.

He's not clearly mentally ill, he subscribes to a belief system that states you can manifest your thoughts. So does Donald Trump.

This horrendous double murder has played on my mind so much. The horrific violence inflicted on joyful sisters celebrating a birthday is awful in itself. And the lack of public outrage, and limited reporting was really upsetting. But the actions of the police officers was grotesque and inhuman. Unforgivably degrading towards innocent women. Absolutely disgusting behaviour from anyone - but by police officers??

These beautiful women were destroyed physically and personally by the actions of men.

for their loved ones

I absolutely hate the way we get to hear the man's reasoning for murder in reports of trials. I hate how terrorism is similarly reported too. It seems wrong that these men still have a voice, when they have silenced the voices of their victims. I don't fucking care mate. Whether God or the devil or your hurt feelings made you do it

This.

Misogyny rules.

Such an awful, sad case. I can't imagine how devastated their family and friends feel. It's been really badly handled at every stage just adding to their pain. Whatever the outcome of the trial I doubt their loved ones will ever feel justice was done.

I have thought about these two women every day since i first heard their names. The image of dancing with the lights, sisters being joyful in the midst of a pandemic.

I am thinking of their friends and family, i cant imagine the pain of it. Every thing that happened to these women that night and later makes me want to howl.

What ever happened to the police officers that took selfies with their corpses?

This is so horrific. 😢

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I absolutely hate the way we get to hear the man's reasoning for murder in reports of trials. I hate how terrorism is similarly reported too. It seems wrong that these men still have a voice, when they have silenced the voices of their victims. I don't fucking care mate. Whether God or the devil or your hurt feelings made you do it

This.

Misogyny rules.

I'm not sure this is misogyny, as trials are reported on regardless of whether the victim is male or female.

I did find the flippant tone of the Barrister inappropriate though:

"As it turned out, the demon did not come good on the bargain since not only did the defendant not win the Lottery but the police identified all the evidence that links him to these two murders."

Nobody cares whether he won the lottery.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan yes I thought that was a cheap joke when I read it too

Agree, Jesus, it's utterly inappropriate for anyone to be cracking jokes in a trial of this nature.

@callmemaybee

What ever happened to the police officers that took selfies with their corpses?

That sort of horrified me more than a mentally ill teenager murderinf two women

callmemaybee
Two officers have been charged

www.standard.co.uk › m...
Met Police officers apologise for pictures at Wembley double murder scene ...

Apologies, my link seems to go to wrong report.

@Blackopal

callmemaybee Two officers have been charged

www.standard.co.uk › m...
Met Police officers apologise for pictures at Wembley double murder scene ...

They should resign if they haven't already.

They need to be prosecuted. On a different story yesterday. A police officer has been sacked for gross misconduct over behaviour towards a colleague. My read of what he did is that it's surely assault/ sexual assault. So why the hell wasn't he arrested? I mean they're the police fgs. A man who was sacked for sexual misconduct at my work it left me uneasy as what he did was a crime and there was no question of the police. In fact I think they advised him to leave immediately so he will get another job. And carry on.

This seems to be the same in schools universities etc.

But the police??!! This is from the bbc

'She said she had criticised him for his suggestion that a job vacancy should go to a woman based on their physical appearance.

This prompted Mr Hawxwell to hold scissors about two inches from her face while calling her sexually derogatory names, she added.

Officer A said this came a day after he put his arms around her throat, temporarily restricting her breathing, while asking if she liked being choked during sex.

Alice Sims, chair of the panel, told the hearing she accepted that Mr Hawxwell's conduct was "an extremely misplaced attempt at workplace banter".

"Nevertheless the panel found that his actions and words in this regard were a breach of the standard of authority, respect and courtesy," she said.'

Banter.

The POLICE.

I mean what chance do we have.

I know this is veering off but the police are quite frankly hopeless and if they aren't interested then where does that leave us.

Agree the 'joke' from the lawyer was bizarre and tasteless.