Trans in the UK: What the Hell are we going to do?

[WhatyoutalkingaboutWillis]

harryjosiegiles.medium.com/trans-in-the-uk-what-the-hell-are-we-going-to-do-73fef741cef6

It's interesting to read the view from the other side no matter how mistaken may be on the background of feminist organisers, etc.

Why not campaign for trans spaces, trans prisons, trans shelters etc? Why insist on being in female spaces when it’s abundantly clear that women there generally don’t want you in them? Why spend your whole time trying to be something that you’re not and never can be? Just be yourself and life will probably seem less exhausting.

I agree with glass its very interesting

There seems to be a whole lot of “organised transphobia” occurring in the UK. I wonder whether any transactivist will stop and consider why... and moreover, why so many women are intolerant, where previously they were the most accepting.

It is interesting. You see precisely the same issues, same words, phrases and wonder "How can that be?"

And then you realise that of course they use the same terminology because when beginning with the firm belief transwomen are actually women there is no other way of seeing the GC push back.

But that then does beg the question, if transwomen are actually women then who are they fighting with/against?

And round we go again!

GC "Why not campaign for trans spaces, trans prisons, trans shelters etc?"

Having now seen how much money Stonewall has been making off their protection racket champions scheme , I think this is an important point.

Stonewall could have funded all of those things. They could have funded training for HCPs for gender clinics. They could have provided support for trans people that would meet their actual needs, instead of trying to bully us all into affirmation at every turn.

Stonewall have done a great deal of harm to the trans community.

You see precisely the same issues, same words, phrases and wonder "How can that be?"

And then you realise that of course they use the same terminology because when beginning with the firm belief transwomen are actually women there is no other way of seeing the GC push back.

I scrolled down to the “who is the enemy” section. I can’t work out whether to sigh or roll my eyes. All the thoughtful and powerful discussion that occurs here, all the nuance and consideration regarding finding a third way is reduced to “organised transphobia” and “dog-whistles”.

Dismissing every rational argument about the clash between women’s rights and the stated aims of transactivism as “dog-whistles” is straightforwardly self-destructive. I’m starting to see it as simply bizarre.

Another middle-class turnip advocating "militant action".

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

GC "Why not campaign for trans spaces, trans prisons, trans shelters etc?"

Having now seen how much money Stonewall has been making off their protection racket champions scheme , I think this is an important point.

Stonewall could have funded all of those things. They could have funded training for HCPs for gender clinics. They could have provided support for trans people that would meet their actual needs, instead of trying to bully us all into affirmation at every turn.

Stonewall have done a great deal of harm to the trans community.

And behind Stonewall, Christine Burns & Press for Change. If they’d all campaigned for their own spaces in the first place instead of demanding ours, they could have retained goodwill from feminists instead of forcing us to defend ourselves.

I couldn’t get past “ and always centre trans liberation “.

It tells me that they are not interested in working together to create a solution, it’s always their way or else!

It's reminiscent of the Action on Trans Health manifesto. They wanted freedom for all trans criminals and the right to perform surgery on each other.

My response would be:

If you want something, get out in front of the public and in the clearest terms possible express that wish, engage openly with reasonable people, not just those who agree with you, and then ask the public what they think.

Alternatively write a long whiny spiel in social justice speech that makes you look unhinged, and when you don't get the moon on a stick, moan bitterly about transphobia and fascism.

I could make a comment about image searching but I won't.

I believe that’s the same writer who wrote the truly bonkers article titled ‘Wages for Transition ‘ which contains such gems as....

‘When we commit armed robbery to fund our surgeries, that is wages for transition. When drag performers unionise, that is wages for transition. When we distribute grey market hormones at gender reveal parties, that is wages for transition. When we take sick pay to lie at home in bed crying and watching make-up tutorials, that is wages for transition.

On and on it goes!

Trans liberation is when we understand the harm that policing the gender binary does to all people

Trans people are the ones living and breathing the gender binary. The rest of us realise the gender binary is a load of nonsense. Indeed we recognised that some 50 years ago. It is trans ideology that is policing the gender binary. We are just wanting protected sex-based spaces and most of us don't have a gender identity at all. Meaning that this is a house of cards.

Oh @Winterlight you are right. It is isn't it?

Why can't you be opposed to the "policing of the gender binary" - which feminists are - without it affecting your sex?

If you say that stepping outside a stereotyped gender role means you are not the right sex, then you are policing a gender binary yourself.

Trans ideology needs to build a false world in which there are two strictly policed gender roles for men and women which no normal person ever deviates from – which is in fact totally untrue - and in which anyone who questions trans ideology is part of a deliberate transphobic movement. Spearheaded by, um, lesbians and radical feminists, who always supported gay rights and trans rights until we had our own protections systematically removed. Along with some trans people too.

It's not anti-trans or transphobia. It's anti-ideology, anti-bullying, anti-having-lies-told-about-us, nonsense-phobia.

Meanwhile there are actual transphobic people around who trans people really do need protection from. Why not work for a way forward where we all get our protections, rights and as much safety as possible?

Harry does say research is needed, and I totally agree. Bring on the research, into the effects of cross-sex hormones and surgery, the outcomes, the suicide and self-harm and depression rates for different approaches, the representation of equality laws by trans charities, the funding of trans charities and who is making money from all this, the rise of being trans as a fashion statement in schools, the numbers of people who wanted to be the opposite sex until they grew out of it and whether they are happy with their sex now. It all needs to come out and transactivists need to take notice of the facts too,

I started reading that piece thinking it was nice to see a more practical, realistic approach to trans rights and perhaps people like the author were the type we could negotiate with; but when you really dig down into that very long article it's as batsit as all the others.

It links to 'great manifestos' like this: radicaltransfeminismzine.tumblr.com/post/165475146592/trans-health-manifesto
Which, if you haven't read it, is comedy gold.

It focuses heavily on how to extract money from the state.

It claims you are all a tiny handful of right wing reactionaries with multiple accounts, pretending to be lesbian feminists.

It promotes the use of violence:
We need rambunctious, militant protests and small, trained direct action groups. We need to interrupt health board meetings and demand immediate resources for trans healthcare in general practice. We need to physically stop deportation flights sending LGBT+ people to be killed. We need to occupy the ground on which non-binary prisons might otherwise be built. We need to not be afraid of militancy, while also understanding its costs and providing emotional, social and financial support to those targeted for state reprisals.

This particular nutter is just a bit more coherent than the rest is all.

I tried to read it, I really did. I got about two thirds of the way through, by which point all that 'organised transphobia' was turning into white noise. It was deserving of 'TLDR - centre me and give me all the resources I want no questions asked'.

The most informative bit IMO was near the start -
"I’m writing this as a trans woman in Scotland in her thirties who is white, middle-class, precariously employed, and autistic. In my teens and early twenties I was involved in environmental direct action as part of broader anarchist movements: that’s my political training and heritage. I’ve also been involved to greater and lesser degrees in anti-borders and migrant solidarity campaigns, antifascism, building collective social centres, campaigns against nuclear weapons, mutual aid organisations and radical trade unionism — and also the Scottish independence movement and the Labour Party, both of which I left. I mention these identities and backgrounds so that you know where I’m speaking from and what my biases are."

To me, that sounds like a person endlessly seeking purpose and connection, and moving onto the next thing when they don't find it.

TLDR - centre me and give me all the resources I want no questions asked'

Totally - the article makes are a lot of claims and arguments that raise questions, but one that really jumped out at me was how HJG thinks you should be able to have whatever treatment you want, immediately, on your say-so, by just saying it’s affecting your mental health to have facial hair or a deep voice and so on.

How can anyone not be able to see that there’s only a limited amount of money and staff, loads of people with other unbearable conditions who need helps, and that gatekeeping methods to ascertain who needs help most are kind of essential? If you could walk into any GP and say “I need free cosmetic surgery now because otherwise it will affect my mental health” and they’d just wave you through, does HJG not realise how many people would do that? Where’s the money coming from and what about all the people with life-threatening illnesses?

It’s written as if it’s a serious, grand manifesto but actually mainly just says “trans people can do no wrong, no one ever pretends to be trans, and all trans people must be given all the money and praise and validation and everything they want all the time and no one else matters.”

I agree Whereyouleftit. I thought the same regarding Harry's bio.

This was interesting in terms of what Harry thought of current situation:

That many trans people have invested too much in charities and NGOs, and in campaigning for legal rights and symbolic recognition, and have not invested enough in movement-building and in winning resources for trans people.

That the dominant tactics of the trans movements in the UK have used lately political lobbying for rights on the one hand, and reactive campaigning against organised transphobia on the other have failed to either win rights or stop transphobia, and so we need better tactics.

I agree that the charities are too dominant and too invested in money making and policy change, whereas actual trans people probably need more practical resources. I'd be interested to know what is meant by movement building.

Whilst I disagree that pushback is transphobia, I can see why political lobbying for someone with their background is frustrating. It begs the question how much Stonewall etc reflect their service users views.

I will admit to not reading it all and just skimming the parts I read.

Absolutely MrsBunHat - I might “identify” as thin and pretty and ten years younger, and the fact that I’m an ageing tubby mum in her forties getting jowls and hairs on the chin actually does cause me a fair bit of sorrow and anguish to be honest - doesn’t it all of us? But I don’t get to howl and demand cosmetic surgery, electrolysis and a personal trainer funded by the NHS as a result.

Plenty of people in this world - maybe a great majority of them to be honest - have deep sorrows and traumas and are struggling with aspects of themselves and their lives, but don’t get the therapy or the support or the attention they need. Half the women I know are gamely chugging back the SSRIs just to keep going in the face of all sorts of awful life circumstances and long-standing traumas.

And yet, this particular “identity” movement feels it ought to be able to demand and bully to get healthcare and funds in preference to, say, funding therapy for childhood trauma and abuse? Domestic abuse? Bereavement? I know two women who’s experienced horrific stillbirths, and got no more than six one-hour therapy sessions paid for by a charity, not even by the NHS. That’s all they got. But this shouty person feels they are hard done by because they aren’t getting free facial hair electrolysis in the middle of a pandemic? Give fucking over. 😬

We need to occupy the ground on which non-binary prisons might otherwise be built.

Now this is an idea I could get behind. Get those prisons built, pronto. I think it would be nice and inclusive to house transwomen in there too.

Only caveat, for safeguarding reasons you obviously couldn’t house non-binaries or any other trans umbrella identifiers of the female sex in there.

Totally - the article makes are a lot of claims and arguments that raise questions, but one that really jumped out at me was how HJG thinks you should be able to have whatever treatment you want, immediately, on your say-so, by just saying it’s affecting your mental health to have facial hair or a deep voice and so on.

There was a poster here a little while back, who worked in something not quite endocrinology but very similar, who described a trans umbrella male (I’ve forgotten the exact identification), who demanded a certain drug, which she, the doctor, knew would be very harmful to that patient.

It ought to be obvious that patients don’t always know which drugs would be best for them, and identifying as trans doesn’t change that.

@EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

It's reminiscent of the Action on Trans Health manifesto. They wanted freedom for all trans criminals and the right to perform surgery on each other.

It actually links to the Action for Trans Health manifesto.

This article is a fascinating example of an inability to get to grips with the truth. I'm not even talking about sex or gender, but stuff like calling the Bell judgement the result of a national moral panic. It wasn't even really in the news until after the judgement.