How can you have a "gender identity" at birth.?

[CovidCorvid]

Because that's what I've been asked to complete a form on by my university where I'm studying. Surely a newborn can't identify as anything and hasn't grasped the concept of gender?

Email about this copied below:

Dear Student,

We are writing to you to ask you to complete a short online form (it will take less than two minutes to complete) to help us gather data we haven’t collected on your student record for our statutory return to the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA).

HESA requires us to collect this information (about sexual orientation and gender identity at birth) so that they can monitor equality and diversity in the higher education sector. We ask these questions of all students who sit within our HESA population. Normally we collect this during the online registration/re-registration process, but we have identified that you were not asked these questions at that time. HESA collect information on other equality and diversity indicators too, which you were asked when you registered/re-registered.

perhaps they could ask what religion you were or which football team you supported

I agree with you, sex is observed and recorded at birth. Gender identity is..... an internal feeling...something that I'm yet to really grasp.

I suppose your parents may have assigned you a gender identity if they were into stereo types, but you would not necessarily be in possession of this information.

Is there an option for 'unknown' or 'don't know'?

To be fair the rules of the gender game change by the minute so it looks like they're trying to appease in the hope they'll fly the radar and avoid an aggressive accusation of transphobia.

Why aren't gender reveal parties transphobic is another interesting question?

There was an option for information refused but no free text to explain why I was refusing so I made good use of the name boxes

Just asked my friends newborn. He’s doesn’t seem to understand. Is he broken? Do we dare call the baby ‘he’? 😬🤣

Sexual orientation??!!

I also put my DOB down as 1924 seeing as the whole form seems a load of bollocks. I'm sure my uni will be delighted to have such a wide range of ages of students!

@NiceGerbil

Sexual orientation??!!

Yeah I refused to answer that question as well.

Worlds gone fucking mad.

@NiceGerbil

Sexual orientation??!!

Sexual orientation and gender identity. So presumably a baby could be a trans lesbian.

Even Baby Brains couldn't work this out.

I identified as a pissed off potatoe.

I assume they are asking this to fulfil their monitoring requirements as a public body under the equality act so I would complete it purely with reference to the protected characteristic of sex and ignore the other one it’s not a protected characteristic

@NiceGerbil

Sexual orientation??!!

To be fair, this is one of the protected characteristics and so maybe it would make life easier if anyone the claimed discrimination on basis of that characteristic if it is recorded against your name. IANAL but there is no obligation to provide sexual orientation info and no reason why a discrimination claim (on basis of sexual orientation) could not be made and upheld.

The following, whilst for employers rather than places of study gives an indication of what is reasonable information to collate, and what information they must have a person's consent to hold:

www.gov.uk/personal-data-my-employer-can-keep-about-me

'HESA requires us to collect this information (about sexual orientation and gender identity at birth) so that they can monitor equality and diversity in the higher education sector'

AT BIRTH!!

I read it as information about:

1. Sexual orientation
2. Gender identity at birth

Not Sexual orientation at birth - that would be completely inappropriate!

Maybe a comma would have helped? I see maybe I read it now how they meant it.

But...

Why aren't they interested in gender identity now? Why at birth? It's nonsensical.

If they are appealing to people who have the ability to know what gender a baby is at birth then one would hope they'd pass on that knowledge to countries where baby girls are thrown on trash heaps or aborted. Seems mean just to use the gift for education purposes

Why aren't they interested in gender identity now? Why at birth? It's nonsensical.

It sure is! We should be used to it by now (face palm).

You've done the right thing OP.

As per the other thread about Gender on a school form, we have to call this nonsense out each and every time.

Sexual orientation and gender identity at birth?!?!?!

Is there an option for "I can't remember"?

A chum applied for a post with the NHS recently and this cropped up on the Equalities Monitoring form that was not noticeably separated from the application form. She sent it to me to ask what the terms meant as there wasn't an accompanying glossary

I read it the same way you did NiceGerbil

No one at birth has any concept of sexuality or gender. Who the heck wrote that utter tripe?

@CovidCorvid

There was an option for information refused but no free text to explain why I was refusing so I made good use of the name boxes

Well that’s more polite than I usually am.

The following, whilst for employers rather than places of study gives an indication of what is reasonable information to collate, and what information they must have a person's consent to hold:

www.gov.uk/personal-data-my-employer-can-keep-about-me

This link has a list of personal data employers can keep about their employees without their permission, and another list of sensitive personal data they need employees' permission to keep.

Gender identity doesn't appear in either list so it's neither in the category of data you don't need permission to keep, nor the category of data you do need permission for.

What does this mean?

@Leafstamp

I read it as information about:

1. Sexual orientation
2. Gender identity at birth

Not Sexual orientation at birth - that would be completely inappropriate!

Yes, but gender identity at birth is also inappropriate.