If you were Stonewall WWYD?

[GrimDamnFanjo]

My background is in branding, PR etc plus gov policy and comms. From that perspective I've spent the last week or so wondering how Stonewall will manage the situation they're in moving forwards.

Of course the most likely situation is they will push on as before regardless but if Champions starts to crumble they will be facing financial losses over the few years.

I wonder whether the Board of Trustees is sufficiently concerned to be thinking ahead about the direction of their policies?

I can't see them abandoning their gender identity ahead of sex stance.

I suspect that if more of the significant government offices leave this week, that there will be an announcement that they will be looking for a new CEO. One that doesn’t say the quiet bits out loud. One that wouldn’t garner complaints to the charities commission about demeaning and demonizing other groups.

safety in male spaces is not the key issue for the most powerful parts of SW. … Many under the umbrella wish to be in female spaces with female people. … Ensuring safe, welcoming male spaces won't meet the real issue that women are facing with this agenda.

Sadly true. That’s why kindness and third spaces are not enough. The loudest SW voices are those who want to break women’s barriers, at any cost to us.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

safety in male spaces is not the key issue for the most powerful parts of SW. … Many under the umbrella wish to be in female spaces with female people. … Ensuring safe, welcoming male spaces won't meet the real issue that women are facing with this agenda.

Sadly true. That’s why kindness and third spaces are not enough. The loudest SW voices are those who want to break women’s barriers, at any cost to us.

Which side why women need to change the agenda and protect their spaces from men who choose to identify as women. The argument presented is often about violence towards the trans women community. That violence is what needs to be addressed.

I think settling with Alison Bailey would be an excellent strategy although who knows if Alison would be amenable to settling, I would imagine it would take a lot for her to give up her case

If they made a reasonable settlement offer which she refused and she continued to litigate, she could end up facing a costs order. However, the main benefit Stonewall would want to get out of a settlement would be an agreement for her to gag herself and I can't think that this is something they could compel. So they could save some money but still be facing a PR nightmare.

Not at all sure. I do know if they wish to remain respected amongst many in the LGB community they need to start to listen. To their core ‘constituents’. Listen and think. Communicate. Work out why they haven’t been doing that for years.
If the result of that is continued divergence then they may need to rethink their name (I personally think it degrades the memory of the Stonewall riots) and their mission statement etc.

Stonewall should have reviewed its mission after the Coalition (led by those awful Tories) efficiently and undramatically legalised same sex marriage with minimal fuss. They could perhaps have downsized (a charity no longer needing funding as it's completed a core aim is a Good Thing surely? Wouldn't it be fantastic if Oxfam no longer existed as everyone on planet had sustainable food sources and clean water?) and focussed on cultural issues, the biggest being homophobia in football perhaps.

Or imagine if Stonewall had had a major rehaul, and put its powerful resources behind some of the less glamorous causes, like disability and age discrimination?

I should have specified homophobia in men's football of course, women's sports by and large not having a problem with this. Which is in itself worthy of interest surely.

The absolute inability to see female people as equals is written all over the 'they don't need it' 'only bad women ever say this stuff' 'you're using your trauma/rape/desire for privacy/care for women with disabilities, culture as a mask for transphobia

It’s not just men saying that. Yesterday, on here, I asked whether a female rape victim at my child’s school should have a right to guaranteed single-sex facilities, or whether a newly trans, male child in the same year took priority. I had some bizarre responses including that my hateful daughter should stop asking about people’s genitals. I hadn’t even mentioned my daughter except to say it was her school.

People go very odd about all of this.

@Artichokeleaves

Its an interesting question. However I'd have to say - If I was Stonewall they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place, so I'd have to think from the pov of if I was Stonewall, being Stonewall as they are, what are they most likely to do?

And the answer is double down, and make their position even plainer. They weren't able to see this coming, or pick up on the many many warning signs and comments. This isn't fixable or recoverable, they believe they are right and justified to do this on government money and that their version of the law is better. If they had the capacity to take on other points of view or a more reasonable position they would not have got themselves into this mess.

I think this most likely

But the other option is to make themselves representatives of the trans community only, by current definitions.

I would campaign for:
Acceptance of transwomen as transwomen, and transmen as transmen;
For people to be able to be out and proud about both their sex and their gender

This! Why didn't they do this! What's wrong with being out and proud to be trans?

Even leaving aside the whole dismissal of womens/ girls' rights and safeguarding, the damage they have helped to do to the mental health of gender questionning/ trans people is horrendous! Why encourage to people, especially children, to believe that people hate them? Why tell people that they are psychologically unable to recognise their sex whilst living as whatever 'gender identity' they wish to? Its unforgiveable that they have encouraged people they are psychologically weak and incapable and that the whole world needs to change or they will be suicidal.

Its not just mad its cruel.

@Beowulfa

Stonewall should have reviewed its mission after the Coalition (led by those awful Tories) efficiently and undramatically legalised same sex marriage with minimal fuss. They could perhaps have downsized (a charity no longer needing funding as it's completed a core aim is a Good Thing surely? Wouldn't it be fantastic if Oxfam no longer existed as everyone on planet had sustainable food sources and clean water?) and focussed on cultural issues, the biggest being homophobia in football perhaps.

Or imagine if Stonewall had had a major rehaul, and put its powerful resources behind some of the less glamorous causes, like disability and age discrimination?

Yep. I'm unsure what legislative inequalities are now still in need of revision in the UK? It just looked like someone did a root around for another seam of money to tap and came up with transgender. There's still much to be done in awareness raising of homophobia in men's sport. Anti bullying in the school and workplace. Visibility.

If I was stonewall I would currently be hiding in the cupboard under the stairs trying desperately to figure a way out.
What stonewall will in fact do is go out in a huge blaze, blaming everyone and anyone.
It will be a spectacular fire though, well worth watching.

@smallspeckbigcloud

*I would campaign for: Acceptance of transwomen as transwomen, and transmen as transmen; For people to be able to be out and proud about both their sex and their gender*

This! Why didn't they do this! What's wrong with being out and proud to be trans?

Even leaving aside the whole dismissal of womens/ girls' rights and safeguarding, the damage they have helped to do to the mental health of gender questionning/ trans people is horrendous! Why encourage to people, especially children, to believe that people hate them? Why tell people that they are psychologically unable to recognise their sex whilst living as whatever 'gender identity' they wish to? Its unforgiveable that they have encouraged people they are psychologically weak and incapable and that the whole world needs to change or they will be suicidal.

Its not just mad its cruel.

Absolutely!

They could change the diversity champions scheme to a tiered scheme with different costs and levels you can achieve, kind of like the 'disability confident' levels - although that's free.

It’s not really a human rights organisation any more, but it’s a militia in the culture war isn’t it, and war rewards the generals and destroys civilians This is interesting forgotthebins I think militia suits SW well.

I really wanted to comment on 2 things. Firstly SW is only at the beginning of this crisis and there will be lots of twists and turns so I wouldn't personally want to be thinking too far ahead. I wouldn't take one of the media jobs, minefield and secondly

I think if I were Allison Bailey, I would agree to settle so long as they didn't insist on a non-disclosure agreement. I can't see Allison accepting anything that would expect her to shut up!

It seems to be lobbying for social engineering. Not it’s original purpose at all.