Ultra-processed foods and the burden on women

[Shedbuilder]

I've had two conversations this weekend with people who saw a BBC documentary on the dangers of ultra-processed foods. Both of them are mothers, both say that as far as they can see, the only way to avoid UPFs is to cook everything from scratch. Both of them are very food-aware anyway but both also work full-time. They talked about how they're going to have to be even more organised than normal, invest in an extra freezer to take even more batch-cooked meals etc. The stress in the air was palpable.

I know some men cook for the family but isn't this yet another burden that's going to be loaded mainly onto women?

It seems to fuel some orthorexic stuff too. Lots of frothing in the other thread about wraps. As though your life expectancy might be cut in half if you eat a salad wrap once a week.

Lots of competitive ‘cooking from scratch’ stuff too. There are plenty of people who see that as a moral choice in women, because food always has to have that dimension to misogynists if it’s women doing the cooking or the eating.

The link between vegetarianism and feminism in old-school ecofeminism is that there's a parallel between oppression of animals and oppression of women and the domination of nature by patriarchal capitalism is linked to domination of women by the same. Meat is part of a dominant economic model that's fundamentally patriarchal.

I live in a non European mediterranean country where UPF use is exploding rapidly. The traditional food culture here is very labour intensive with shopping daily and everything prepared from scratch (although the actual recipes are not that complicated). The UPF use, sugar consumption and associated childhood obesity crisis isn't in poor people- it's the middle and upper classes where women now work. They've already got a huge double burden. Obviously the answer is for men to step up, and that is happening more, but in the meantime?

Such an interesting thread.
I so agree about burdens of saving the planet ending up at the feet of women- disposable nappies being a good point.
I'm not suggesting their use is good, but it isn't men who are washing the cloth ones.
If we wait until men step up we may wait a long time.
Time for women to take a step back.
Internalised misogyny is a damaging thing, women pitting against each other, the competitive narrative that women have been fed by patriarchy.
While raging against the system needs to be done, challenging our own behaviours and assumptions is one thing we have control over.
Makes me fume too when I read about women pandering to men who are picky over food or enabling lazy men who sit on x boxes every night.
Empowering ourselves and helping other women to empower themselves too is a good place to start.

I agree this can add extra pressure to parents, mums in particular. It's also awful when you've spent ages making nice foods and they won't eat it.

I think we are ok except I need to know if fish fingers are upf? And ricotta and spinach tortellini with pesto and that's about all my 3 yr old will eat. does eat a vegan curry I make though bizarrely

I sometimes get confused about processed foods as isn't making your own fish finger or pizza a processed food?

I need to moan about a common issue some of the dads I know have from taking to friends, including Dh, about ham.

Apparently ham is THE most important sandwich filler despite afik being ultra processed?

Does ham maketh the man? Or something?

Interestingly DH was all over the washable nappies, but would much prefer to throw some fish fingers at the oven though we do make our own wedges. I think it's a case of if it's much more effort (which washable nappies really aren't - much less smelly especially in the wheelie bin in summer) he defaults to "I don't know how to do this and I don't really want to learn".

Yep.
I agree that we need proper meals in school and proper break times. Especially in secondary schools. Expecting kids to queue for a slice of pizza and eat it in 45 mins and get fresh air is just rubbish.
These days I go straight from logging off my laptop to dealing with food. (Lone parent and kids who refuse to cook, I simply don't have the energy to deal with them about it any more).

@thelegohooverer have you got any links to books about that? Or is it just something you’ve noticed?

There’s a definite historical pattern whereby every advance that eases women’s domestic labour is replaced by a societal expectation that increases it.

Completely agree. We were discussing what’s changed and I said to DP that women’s sole job used to be home making. Cooking and cleaning while the children were shooed away from the home at school or playing with a crowd of friends.

Nowadays women are juggling full time employment alongside their children’s social calendar. Add in cooking, cleaning, gardening and seeing friends, there literally is not enough time in the day. Its so obvious why we now lean on processed foods. That’s why companies like Hello Fresh have a foothold. My kids are also frustratingly fussy, so whilst I mix up oven foods with home cooked meals, the processed foods are enjoyed much more whereas the hole cooked meals gets eye rolls and moans.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Completely agree. We were discussing what’s changed and I said to DP that women’s sole job used to be home making. Cooking and cleaning while the children were shooed away from the home at school or playing with a crowd of friends.

Nowadays women are juggling full time employment alongside their children’s social calendar. Add in cooking, cleaning, gardening and seeing friends, there literally is not enough time in the day. Its so obvious why we now lean on processed foods. That’s why companies like Hello Fresh have a foothold. My kids are also frustratingly fussy, so whilst I mix up oven foods with home cooked meals, the processed foods are enjoyed much more whereas the hole cooked meals gets eye rolls and moans.

I don't know about that though @justanotherneighinparadise

I come from a working class community where women always worked. In fact, where I come from, women famously worked down the coal mines alongside the men. Women miners are fairly unusual granted, but working class women have always worked. And where they haven't worked outside the home, they've worked to grow and gather food which isn't quite homemaking in the sense we use it now.

The woman as homemaker ideal is tied to the rise of the middle classes - hopefully a social historian will pop up at some point - but iirc from my sketchy knowledge we're really just talking Victorian times to 70s, which is a blink in the eye really.

So what has changed? Industrialisation linked to capitalism linked to expectations and food as social symbols. The more this (brilliant) thread goes on the clearer it becomes to me that we need to go back to talking about capitalism as an axis of patriarchy.

I make a lot of effort to eat good food because of what I know about gut bacteria etc, but also because UPFs taste bad, give me headaches and don't fill me up.

But it is soooo expensive to buy high quality fruit and veg (eg organic for much better taste, or fancy berries etc not just basic apples etc) so I completely understand why it is an issue for many.

Added to that there is peer pressure - my son is so envious of the crappy snacks his classmates get, and in huge quantities too. As default. I don't want him to feel it's forbidden fruit. Or that he is left out. Sweets and crap as rewards, even from school, cutting across the "healthy eating" curriculum . UPFs everywhere- cinema, swimming pool, parties, Tesco, after playdates etc.

It's absolutely exhausting, expensive and lonely trying to eat well in this society.

It is so true that our idea of the past is distorted. We have this idealised view of history through an upper and middle class lens, when the reality for poor people was substandard food, working long hours in substandard conditions, two income families through necessity and often children working too (just as it is now without the child labour!)

The bread may have been fresh from the bakers, but the flour could well be cut with anything from heavy metals (Victorian era) to sawdust (wartime). A lot of food was processed, maybe not UPFs like now but certainly processed to help preserve them (spam and jam, for example).

We didn't have so much obesity a century ago, because we were a country crippled by malnutrition and extremes of wealth, with children starving in the last of the work houses. We don't need to go backwards, or look to the past for the answers. Let's look to the science which will hopefully have more answers for us, and to new innovative ways of getting the UPFs out of our foods. We don't need to be hiding at home trying to fix the flaws in our food systems, this is not our burden to bare alone. This is the kind of issue which has to be tackled systemically, we need change everywhere. There is no good punishing the women at home for feeding their families bread made from substandard flour. They don't control what goes into the flour. So like the scandals of food quality in the past, this needs to come from the people in charge.

I'm not here on this Earth to patch the holes in somebody else's boat. I've got better shit to do

No at all. It’s the mother’s choice of she takes on the burden of preparing all meals. If she’s coerced into taking on that role that is a different story. An inequitable relationship like that should be addressed… whether preparing non-processed food or other.

Yes I agree the narrative that women used to be at home all day just doing domestic labour is just historically wrong for the vast majority of the population throughout history, surely that was only the case for the small-ish middle class in the UK. Only one of my family lines is British but all the women in my British family (working class!) have pretty much always worked, they couldn't afford not to. One of my great aunts had 6 children close together in age and an alcoholic, abusive husband (who she eventually divorced) and still worked PT even though she did all the domestic labour herself including washable nappies and so on. I would say one difference is that she had lots of siblings and a big local family so people did chip in to help each other out more than can happen these days if people live miles away from their families. Although when I say 'people' it was still overwhelmingly female relatives that would support other female relatives even though they themselves were also working and had their own kids etc. But anyway there were no SAHMs in my family until sort of my generation tbh so people now aged 20-40 so those women in the past in my family certainly didn't have more free time.

I don't get this thread.. Not feeding your kids upf is not difficult or time-consuming.. Plenty of foods are quickly made from scratch like omelette, roast potatoes, stir fries, soups.. An omelette takes about 10 minutes to make. A lot less than heating a frozen ready-made pizza.
I don't know who's fault it is that there has to be such a juxtaposition in between healthy/slow and ready-made/quick or not seeing an unprocessed food as the default diet. Processed food tastes bad, makes you feel bad and makes you unfit. When did that become the norm?

Those saying that cooking from scratch is easy and quick and anybody can do it are out of touch with the circumstances many people are living in.

You need decent pans, a decent oven and other utensils from knives to Pyrex bowls to make most things. You need nothing to make chips and nuggets except a tray that you can buy in the pound shop.

Try cooking in thin cheap, pans and you’ll soon realise that the tomato sauce burns rather than simmers. Try cooking when you’re on a key meter for your gas and electric and it’s costing you money to simmer that sauce for half an hour rather than taking a minute to heat through.

There are so many barriers here that people are just wilfully ignoring.

@MildredPuppy

It was an interesting programme and i thought busy working people are going to find it harder to reduce their ultra processed foods but to be honest baking a bit of salmon, or a lamb chop doesnt take longer than shoving some nuggests in really. Veg is veg and a jacket potoato or rice isnt much effort compated to oven chips. I think its more the brain space and fighting the whole industry thats the issue. And things like on a play date are you going to risk something fancy or stick to pizza

I'm a SP, work full time and we eat no UPF

It's really not that hard. It's definitely worth it.

If you are feeding your children anyway, why the big uproar about changing what you feed them slightly. It doesn't have to be restaurant quality every day, just natural non-processed food. Putting a roast chicken in the oven with some jacket potatoes and veg is hardly labour intensive.

And I often wonder why there is still a question on the FWR board that men and women are actually most often quite different. And yes, women, in general, do worry about what to feed their children more than men. I don't think that will change anytime soon.

@Angelica789

Those saying that cooking from scratch is easy and quick and anybody can do it are out of touch with the circumstances many people are living in.

You need decent pans, a decent oven and other utensils from knives to Pyrex bowls to make most things. You need nothing to make chips and nuggets except a tray that you can buy in the pound shop.

Try cooking in thin cheap, pans and you’ll soon realise that the tomato sauce burns rather than simmers. Try cooking when you’re on a key meter for your gas and electric and it’s costing you money to simmer that sauce for half an hour rather than taking a minute to heat through.

There are so many barriers here that people are just wilfully ignoring.

All true, not to mention maybe living in a homeless hostel or B and B, and having little access to cooking facilities, or getting most of your food in tins and packets from a food bank. A Girl Called Jack did a good job of taking the faff out of cooking and still making reasonably healthy stuff on a budget. Time and money are still significant factors for a lot of people. And yes, of course men should do their share.

@Angelica789

Those saying that cooking from scratch is easy and quick and anybody can do it are out of touch with the circumstances many people are living in.

You need decent pans, a decent oven and other utensils from knives to Pyrex bowls to make most things. You need nothing to make chips and nuggets except a tray that you can buy in the pound shop.

Try cooking in thin cheap, pans and you’ll soon realise that the tomato sauce burns rather than simmers. Try cooking when you’re on a key meter for your gas and electric and it’s costing you money to simmer that sauce for half an hour rather than taking a minute to heat through.

There are so many barriers here that people are just wilfully ignoring.

You're really just looking for difficulties where there aren't any. It simply isn't true that you need expensive equipment to cook with. Shops like wilkinsons sell pots and pans and utensils very cheaply, perfectly adequate to make simple meals with.

@Angelica789

Those saying that cooking from scratch is easy and quick and anybody can do it are out of touch with the circumstances many people are living in.

You need decent pans, a decent oven and other utensils from knives to Pyrex bowls to make most things. You need nothing to make chips and nuggets except a tray that you can buy in the pound shop.

Try cooking in thin cheap, pans and you’ll soon realise that the tomato sauce burns rather than simmers. Try cooking when you’re on a key meter for your gas and electric and it’s costing you money to simmer that sauce for half an hour rather than taking a minute to heat through.

There are so many barriers here that people are just wilfully ignoring.

Thanks, Angelica. I was just bracing myself to explain why making roast potatoes from scratch (they take at least 40 minutes), or finding good fresh ingredients for a stir fry in a lot of local shops in a deprived area, or being able to afford the spices and herbs, the spoonful of miso or fresh coriander or squeeze of lemon or red wine vinegar to make your own curries and pasta sauces, or being able to afford the gas/ electricity required to cook something slowly for 30 minutes isn't possible for an awful lot of poor people. But you did it for me.

Roast potatoes aren't quick. Peeling, boiling and roasting, almost 2hrs. That's a pan and baking tray that needs to be scrubbed afterwards. They're a lazy weekend meal.

You need decent pans, a decent oven and other utensils from knives to Pyrex bowls to make most things. You need nothing to make chips and nuggets except a tray that you can buy in the pound shop.

You need an oven and a freezer.

@Peppapeg

You need decent pans, a decent oven and other utensils from knives to Pyrex bowls to make most things. You need nothing to make chips and nuggets except a tray that you can buy in the pound shop.

You need an oven and a freezer.

No, you can go to the corner shop at practically any time of the day or night and buy chips and nuggets. So you can do without a freezer if necessary.

@Shedbuilder but it's unlikely someone is going to eat a full bag of both, MN gets very strange about assumptions about stuff like this. I grew up in poverty and do a lot with food banks here, and alongside initiatives for white goods to be passed on to families who need them. I know this isn't the case up and down the country, and I know people are going to say I have no idea, but believe me I do; I've lived it and see it everyday. It still isn't as painted here.

Noticeable that a lot of these easy, quick meals have eye-wateringly expensive ingredients - lamb chops, salmon fillets and whole chickens are pricey!

@ZoeMaye

It is so true that our idea of the past is distorted. We have this idealised view of history through an upper and middle class lens, when the reality for poor people was substandard food, working long hours in substandard conditions, two income families through necessity and often children working too (just as it is now without the child labour!)

The bread may have been fresh from the bakers, but the flour could well be cut with anything from heavy metals (Victorian era) to sawdust (wartime). A lot of food was processed, maybe not UPFs like now but certainly processed to help preserve them (spam and jam, for example).

We didn't have so much obesity a century ago, because we were a country crippled by malnutrition and extremes of wealth, with children starving in the last of the work houses. We don't need to go backwards, or look to the past for the answers. Let's look to the science which will hopefully have more answers for us, and to new innovative ways of getting the UPFs out of our foods. We don't need to be hiding at home trying to fix the flaws in our food systems, this is not our burden to bare alone. This is the kind of issue which has to be tackled systemically, we need change everywhere. There is no good punishing the women at home for feeding their families bread made from substandard flour. They don't control what goes into the flour. So like the scandals of food quality in the past, this needs to come from the people in charge.

I'm not here on this Earth to patch the holes in somebody else's boat. I've got better shit to do

Bloody great post @ZoeMaye, couldn't agree more.