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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What Gender Critical REALLY means: Gender Critical GC = Stereotype Critical SC = Oppression Critical OC = Demanding Equality DE = Prioritising Safeguarding PS

33 replies

FindTheTruth · 29/05/2021 11:15

I’ve been thinking about what Gender Critical REALLY MEANS after Nancy Kelley equated this to being anti semitic. Some observations, based on thousands of FWR posts in this forum:

Gender critical means criticising stereotypes ; We’re critical of stereotypes imposed by patriarchy. We reject teaching children the belief that stereotypes equate to gender identity. We say let toys be toys. Let children wear what they want. Let girls and boys play with what they want, dress how they want, play the sports that they want and do what they want. We reject adults teaching children that wanting to have fun, means that they are born in the wrong body or that ‘doctors got it wrong’. Thousands of females had short hair and wanted to climb trees or play with the boys. It’s fine. Thousands of males wanted to dress in beautiful clothes or play with dolls. It’s fine.

Gender critical means Demanding Equality ; We want fairness and equality for all groups and categories of people, including the female sex class. This means ‘nothing about us without us’ where each category is free to represent themselves in policy and law. To be inclusive you need categories; erasing a category = erasing their rights. . One category doesn’t have the human right to erase another category. One category does not have the human right to define another category to which they don’t belong.

Gender critical means Prioritising Safeguarding ; Nothing comes above the safety of children. EVER. Every female has a tally and at certain times needs single sex spaces, including refuges.

Gender critical means Oppression Critical ; standing up against the oppression silencing women in universities, political parties, public bodies, workplaces and social media.

OP posts:
InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 29/05/2021 11:29

I think we need a term to describe people who acknowledge the material reality of sex without being gender critical. Gender traditionalists?

SunnydaleClassProtector99 · 29/05/2021 11:35

Preaching to the converted here. Of course, they're never going to make it known what GC really means, as it's a perfectly reasonable, liberal mainstream principle.

Most of the public are either GC or 'gender traditional thinking'. Which is why most people have given trans a wide berth and allowed them to 'get on with it.' they think they've been practising tolerance and not promoting a ideology.

ArabellaScott · 29/05/2021 11:58

I think we need a term to describe people who acknowledge the material reality of sex without being gender critical

Just everyone who doesn't believe it's possible to change sex, choose sex or be born in the wrong body.

Zinco · 29/05/2021 19:11

What actually counts or doesn't count as "gender critical"?

Pretty much everyone (I'm guessing) would say that gender roles are partly a social construct.

What might be more controversial, is

(A) Gender is very largely a social construct

vs

(B) Gender is partly a social construct, but there are also significant, real (average) psychological differences between men and women, although allowing for a lot of individual variation so not everyone will conform to type.

One example would be male violence. I suspect that this isn't purely a social thing, but rather males are just biologically hardwired to be more violent/aggressive.

Soontobe60 · 29/05/2021 19:17

@Zinco

What actually counts or doesn't count as "gender critical"?

Pretty much everyone (I'm guessing) would say that gender roles are partly a social construct.

What might be more controversial, is

(A) Gender is very largely a social construct

vs

(B) Gender is partly a social construct, but there are also significant, real (average) psychological differences between men and women, although allowing for a lot of individual variation so not everyone will conform to type.

One example would be male violence. I suspect that this isn't purely a social thing, but rather males are just biologically hardwired to be more violent/aggressive.

Your point about male violence, saying that males are hard wired biologically, means that it’s not a social, learned thing. For me, it’s like what came first, the chicken or the egg - nature vs nurture.
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 30/05/2021 08:19

I agree find

For a lot of people GC seems to translate to trans hating which just isnt the case

FindTheTruth · 30/05/2021 08:37

GC seems to translate to trans hating which just isnt the case

Agree. I don't hate transwomen or transmen or any trans person. I believe in fairness. and that no group has a right to bully another group, particularly when they don't belong to it

OP posts:
Blibbyblobby · 30/05/2021 21:03

Gender traditional => boxes are good, only 2 boxes are real, stay in the box for your sex
Gender ideology => boxes are good, there are lots of boxes and they are all real, you can move between them
Gender critical => there are no boxes

LazyHorizon · 30/05/2021 21:28

Perfectly put @Blibbyblobby

Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:16

@LazyHorizon

Perfectly put *@Blibbyblobby*
Although my personal view is:

"Sex is real and has a material impact through both physical differences and the hangover of a society built on patriarchy. Gender may or may not be real. Deal with the sex issues first, then see what, if any, gender issues remain that need to be dealt with".

Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:24

The critical point being, it doesn't actually matter whether or not gender is real, what we need to focus on is that sex is very definitely real, it is not the same thing as gender, and female people therefore need to have space, recognition, resources and support to deal with the differences issues that arise due to sex. Whatever may or may not be needed by "women" based on gender is a separate thing and should not impact support for the female sex.

yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 14:46

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 14:49

Don't be silly, yeahbutnaw. That's all complete rubbish.

Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:54

@yeahbutnaw

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

No it doesn’t. Those are gender ideologist lies.

No one who is gender critical believes any of that. A very brief perusal of this board or anywhere else gender critical people are speaking for themselves rather than being spoken over by people who claim to know what they “really” think will show you what I say is true.

So you can believe what we say about ourselves, or you can believe what others tell you about us and ignore what we say about ourselves.

I’m interested to know why you think someone who is not gender critical is better placed to say what gender critical people think than actual gender critical people?

yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 14:54

I forgot some:

It means checking your Likes on JK Rowling tweets every day.

It means calling yourself "superstraight" or "supergay".

It means pouring money into failed legal actions. Or to buy mattresses.

It means pretending to be LGB so people don't think you're a bigot.

It means supporting evangelical christian groups who will come for bodily autonomy next.

It means criticising Caster Semenya for having been born.

yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 14:55

@Blibbyblobby

You've assumed that someone told me these things. They didn't.

I have eyes. I can see you.

Soontobe60 · 31/05/2021 14:58

@yeahbutnaw

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

Utter tosh. GC means that you do not subscribe to the idea that to belong to one particular ‘gender’ you have to look, act, think in a certain way. Young gay boys do not have to be pushed into believing they must be girls because they don’t play football, don’t find girls sexually attractive, want to wear pink nail polish or make up. Young lesbian girls don’t have to have their breasts and their uteruses removed because they only find other girls sexually attractive. The myth that some people are born in the wrong body has been well and truly debunked worldwide.
Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:59

[quote yeahbutnaw]@Blibbyblobby

You've assumed that someone told me these things. They didn't.

I have eyes. I can see you.[/quote]
And yet nothing you have said describes me, so you may think you see so clearly but you are wrong.

You see what you think you see through your own prejudices. You are fighting a boogeyman of your own imagination.

And if you are wrong about me, what else are you wrong about?

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 14:59
Grin
yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 15:00

@Soontobe60

That's fairly homophobic. You just reduced gay and lesbian people to a set of harmful stereotypes.

Have another think.

Soontobe60 · 31/05/2021 15:00

@yeahbutnaw

I forgot some:

It means checking your Likes on JK Rowling tweets every day.

It means calling yourself "superstraight" or "supergay".

It means pouring money into failed legal actions. Or to buy mattresses.

It means pretending to be LGB so people don't think you're a bigot.

It means supporting evangelical christian groups who will come for bodily autonomy next.

It means criticising Caster Semenya for having been born.

I haven’t done any of the things you’ve listed. And yet I’m GC. 🤷🏼‍♀️
ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 15:02
Soontobe60 · 31/05/2021 15:02

[quote yeahbutnaw]@Soontobe60

That's fairly homophobic. You just reduced gay and lesbian people to a set of harmful stereotypes.

Have another think.[/quote]
You clearly are not able to fully understand what you are reading. What I have said is the exact opposite of being homophobic. The exact opposite of reducing people to stereotypes. That’s the whole ethos of GC. To fight against stereotypes of any sort,

Helleofabore · 31/05/2021 15:02

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

Since you got the very first point so wildly wrong, I think we can disregard the rest of your points.

Gender critical accepts that women have their reproductive capacity and the differences in biology from males in common, and that rights need to extend to protect women because of that. However, our capacity to reproduce doesn't define who we are.

We are not the ones 'reducing' women to reproduction. We are not the ones insisting on calling women by dehumanising biological functions and body parts. We are not the ones who define women by 'binary' except in reproduction which is a biological reality and fact. We are not the ones who require everyone else to fit into a box we define so that we can be 'authentic'.

So, yes. Your 'Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity' is totally false and maybe you should actually start to understand why rather than parroting phrases you learn off the internet.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 31/05/2021 15:03

@yeahbutnaw

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

It's not the GC crew who refer to women as "people with a uterus"
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