Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

[OnWednesdaysWeWearMink]

BBC R1 news beat has just reported that Elliot page has undergone “life saving” “top surgery”.

Here is the related web article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57239448

This reporting perpetuates the narrative that people will commit suicide if they don’t get the right sort of treatment. I find it deeply irresponsible. Does anyone know if Samaritans are tackling this sort of coverage in their media guidelines? I’d hope work is going on behind the scenes as they are a fantastic charity. (I assume they are not captured?)

A double mastectomy is usually lifesaving when it comes to breast cancer... so I find calling an elective cosmetic procedure lifesaving pretty insulting. But that’s just me being petty and not the main point.

@Wannabangbang

It is lifesaving for a trans person. Only on Mn do transphobic people come out for all to see. See. It frequently on these boards.

Keira Bell doesn't agree with you, for one.

I've tried over 30 years and 3 different PCTs. I am just unlucky I suppose!

And yes, I was. And yes, I did formally complain and was told he was going through a hard time in his personal life and I should, effectively, be nice! Still got no further with getting surgery though!

I could understand if the report was something like "Elliott Page described the surgery as 'lifesaving'", but to just present it as uncontested fact seems very odd. I'm not sure even psychiatric medication is routinely described that way, even though it certainly can be. Again it would be reported along the lines of "so-and-so credits the medication with saving their life", surely?

A mental health problem that is so severe that only surgery will alleviate it? Right.

Elliot found it lifesaving - ie from his perspective it saved his life. That is all.

I don’t think you need to read anything more into it than that OP.

The War on Women newsletter had a link and some information on how to complain to the BBC but I have trawled back through and can't find it now. If I find it I'll post it!

[quote ArabellaScott]'"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism,'

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885[/quote]
This study seems to have a pretty major flaw in that it didn't compare transgender people who had undergone surgery to transgender people who hadn't undergone surgery.

All it does is compare transgender people who have undergone surgery to non-transgender people, and it concludes that transgender people who have undergone surgery have a higher risk of suicide than the general population.

That's not exactly new information. We know that transgender people are one of the most vulnerable groups in society and that their mental health is particularly poor, for a huge variety of reasons.

The study also isn't even advocating against surgery - it simply says that people need better follow-up care after surgery in order to better support their mental health.

I would like you to outline where I have been transphobic in my posts. This isn’t about a specific celebrity- it is about responsible reporting of suicide.

Maybe I should not have mentioned the name, but this was sparked by a BBC radio news report about a specific celeb. In the 5 second summary, the reporter said the “top surgery” was “lifesaving”. My point is that that should not have said lifesaving.

Hah!

waronwomen.substack.com/p/3rd-may-2021

Elliot found it lifesaving - ie from his perspective it saved his life. That is all

WE can all say anything we like, it doesn't make it actually true. OP is right, its irresponsible terminology that feeds the idea that troubled people need cosmetic surgery or they will kill themselves.

I'm glad for him. He looks great but it is not lifesaving surgery. It is very probably life-enhancing, it has certainly made him happier in his own skin but it is dangerous to imply that without that sort of surgery suicide is the next option. Maybe it was for him, I can't pretend to know that but for many people who want to transition surgery will be too expensive, unavailable or a very long time coming. Rather than push the narrative that suicide is an option - even though obviously it is - can be very damaging to young people trying to come to terms with who they are.

If that's transphobic, then I own it.

Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need. That's not "perpetuating a narrative", it's just the truth.

Just so we're looking at the same item, that's a non-random survey from 2012?

Whilst the study provided an important starting point for better understanding rates of suicidal ideation and suicide attempt within the UK trans population, it did not represent an in-depth exploration of the characteristics and correlates of suicide risk and behaviour. Instead, the findings on suicidal ideation and suicide attempt emerged as part of a wider survey of general rates of mental health and experience, which were examined mainly in relation to interaction with primary care, mental health and specialist health services. The study did explore some of the contributing factors for suicide risk – identified in terms of trans-related and non-trans-related factors – however, it did not present a substantive examination of all the factors which elevate trans suicide risk, particularly in relation to those for whom social and/or medical transition was not relevant or needed.

And no comparison with comparable cohorts?

@Confusedaboutlots

Elliot found it lifesaving - ie from his perspective it saved his life. That is all.

I don’t think you need to read anything more into it than that OP.

It’s not about me or what a specific person said, it’s about responsible journalism. EP can call it what they like, but it should not be repeated in media headlines / radio spots.

Here are the Samaritans guidelines on responsible reporting: media.samaritans.org/documents/Media_Guidelines_FINAL.pdf

I think they should be offering guidance to the press around these issues. Fingers crossed that they are.

They've just changed the headline:

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57239448

[quote Leafstamp]They've just changed the headline:

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57239448[/quote]
Seems we were right. I expect they've had loads of complaints.

Seems we were right. I expect they've had loads of complaints.

Without a doubt.

Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need

Depression/poor mental health is the cause of feeling suicidal. People suffering depression are strongly advised against making any major decisions, such as selling their house, getting divorced, quitting their job etc, because they're not in the right frame of mind to be making calls like that and will likely regret it later.

Yet people who are suicidal or depressed because of their dysphoria are considered to be in the right state of mind to be making huge life changing decisions (having healthy body parts removed).

Why does safeguarding go out of the window as soon as 'gender' is mentioned?

@Erikrie

Seems we were right. I expect they've had loads of complaints.

Without a doubt.

And possibly a word from The Samaritans?

@Wannabangbang
@Mockolate
@Collaborate

Do you get it now? This was about irresponsible reporting.

*This study seems to have a pretty major flaw in that it didn't compare transgender people who had undergone surgery to transgender people who hadn't undergone surgery.

All it does is compare transgender people who have undergone surgery to non-transgender people, and it concludes that transgender people who have undergone surgery have a higher risk of suicide than the general population.*

I agree, did you read the second paper I posted?

Although, it's not necessarily a 'flaw', it's just not something the survey compared.

@Erikrie

Seems we were right. I expect they've had loads of complaints.

Without a doubt.

Quite right. And 'life-saving' now presented in quotes, as a quote, from Page.

That's better, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

I have exactly this frustration with some Christian LGBT rights campaigners, notably Jayne Ozanne and her organisation. A little while back a young teenager (I think she was 13) who attended an evangelical church tragically killed herself. The stated reason given was that she was a lesbian and the church and her parents were homophobic, and she couldn’t face coming out to any of them. All the campaigning and reporting on the case went heavy on this as the reason for her suicide; the pastor gave a public apology and the church she attended did a very public pivot and now is totally accepting of LGBT people. Jayne, that pastor and many other campaigners regularly cite the girl by name still as being a great inspiration and say that if other churches don’t immediately become similarly accepting there will be lots more suicides of teens and young people.

I have on occasion tried gently to challenge this narrative precisely on the grounds that it contravenes at least two of the Samaritans’ guidelines on responsible reporting of suicide: it attributes her death to one thing only, and it says that her death had a positive result (made her church accept gay people). It’s practically an invitation to other similarly troubled teenagers to follow suit

I say this as a lesbian who grew up in a homophobic religious community, by the way.

The article says he came out as gay - is it not transphobic to say he's gay?

You can say someone is gay as long as you make it clear that doesn't mean they prefer a particular sex. I think.

A few years ago there was a lovely series of videos made that had public figures including Barack Obama saying, it gets better. Does anyone remember? It was anti-bullying and aimed particularly at LGBT kids, to tell them that no matter how tough life can be in school, in a difficult home environment etc, hang on in there, it does get better. How did we go from that message to, have your breasts cut off or you’re going to kill yourself?