Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

[OnWednesdaysWeWearMink]

BBC R1 news beat has just reported that Elliot page has undergone “life saving” “top surgery”.

Here is the related web article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57239448

This reporting perpetuates the narrative that people will commit suicide if they don’t get the right sort of treatment. I find it deeply irresponsible. Does anyone know if Samaritans are tackling this sort of coverage in their media guidelines? I’d hope work is going on behind the scenes as they are a fantastic charity. (I assume they are not captured?)

A double mastectomy is usually lifesaving when it comes to breast cancer... so I find calling an elective cosmetic procedure lifesaving pretty insulting. But that’s just me being petty and not the main point.

It's curious the froth you seem to get yourself in to about EP's surgery. It's literally none of your business.

EP has made it everyone's business by talking to the press about it. EP is a popular actor who has been in numerous things that appeal to teenagers and young adults. They are in an influential position.

Oh, and your two sentences directly contradict each other.

No they don't

@QueenOfPain

Why don’t we call lip fillers or Botox or garden variety breast augmentation lifesaving procedures/surgeries? Some of those people might have killed themselves too if they hadn’t been able to correct their perceived aesthetic failings?

It’s totally manipulative to be telling people you’ll kill yourself if you can’t have certain things.

I agree with this. This is what it boils down to.

Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need. That's not "perpetuating a narrative", it's just the truth.

www.researchgate.net/publication/281441727_Suicide_risk_in_the_UK_Trans_population_and_the_role_of_gender_transition_in_decreasing_suicidal_ideation_and_suicide_attempt

@GintyMcGinty

It is quite common for people to have plastic surgery for mental health reasons.

I don't see why this is any different.

I basically agree with this statement. Except that we would also be saying similar if the headline was:

"Prince William has life saving nose job" (although I'm sure he wouldn't post about this on SM)

As a pp said, when it's someone in the public eye and they choose to broadcast it, its obvious that people are going to comment on it.

Oops I meant transmen.

@GintyMcGinty

It is quite common for people to have plastic surgery for mental health reasons.

I don't see why this is any different.

And we, women, get turned down for it because we are told that "They are natural" "It won't be that bad" "Don't let this thing change you" "You look fine just as you are"" We don't fund cosmetic surgery"

I have been told ALL of those since I was 20 years old and my breasts were 36G! I have chronic neck and back pain because of it and over the years have been given all of those reasons. And now I am told that "at your age" it probably ins't worth it. I am 55!

Yet my transwoman friend asked , back in the 90s, and was fasttracked, even back then! Their mental health was deemed to be more fraglie than mine - odd given I was also called an hysterical woman when I cried on being told no, yet again!

I don't know who they are . Let them do what they like , they are not harming anyone.

This report seems quite nuanced.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/

'An important finding was that the incidence for observed suicide deaths was almost equally distributed over the different stages of treatment. Although the distribution showed that one‐third of the suicides occurred in people who were no longer in active treatment in our center, the other two‐third of the people who died by suicide still visited our center in the previous two years. About half of these last two‐third people were still in active diagnostic or medical treatment, while the other half completed their transition and only came for a medical check‐up. This indicates that vulnerability for suicide occurs similarly in the different stages of transition.'

As I understand that, surgery seemed to have little to no effect on suicide rates. To call it 'life saving' seems inaccurate.

[quote nancywhitehead]Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need. That's not "perpetuating a narrative", it's just the truth.

www.researchgate.net/publication/281441727_Suicide_risk_in_the_UK_Trans_population_and_the_role_of_gender_transition_in_decreasing_suicidal_ideation_and_suicide_attempt[/quote]
It is also true that if you see a media report that someone died at a beauty spot, it’s probably because they flung themselves off a cliff or hung themselves. 99% of media reports will not tell you the method though, because that can lead to copycats. It’s about responsible journalism.

Even if the surgery reduces suicide (which I don’t think is proven), I do not think it should be reported like that.

Suicide myth.

^www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/^

Lifesaving?

Jesus fucking Christ. We really are plumbing the depths now.

@OnWednesdaysWeWearMink I don't think you are going to get that message through! IThe double standards is amzing - and that is just how Stonewall finagled it!

I am not sure if the story has been updated but the headline doesn't refer to "life saving" and the article now specifically says that he said it was life saving for him.

As someone who had breast surgery (reduction) 20 years ago and for whom it was genuinely life changing, I can understand the hyperbole. But agree with OP, routinely reporting on this sort of thing as life changing embeds this idea that being trans ALSO comes with suicidal thoughts that MUST be acted on if the trans person does not fin d a way to get the body they want. And that seems very harmful to me.

[quote nancywhitehead]Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need. That's not "perpetuating a narrative", it's just the truth.

www.researchgate.net/publication/281441727_Suicide_risk_in_the_UK_Trans_population_and_the_role_of_gender_transition_in_decreasing_suicidal_ideation_and_suicide_attempt[/quote]
What is 'treatment' here, though? That could be anything from counselling to a full phalloplasty. We're discussing the impact of surgery, specifically.

Speaking from my time exploring this whole issue and my feelings /identity

Given if you have any trans tendencies the whole concept of suicide is spoon fed to you , I would suggest that the suicide ideation is high because you are taught to talk about it

A better test might be " how much is suicide rates in children reducing now we have much better( ha ha ) support for these children

And the answer is that pre covid it was rising

Which then leads us to ask why

@IvyTwines2

And it's well worth noting (as some are on Twitter) that while Elliot's nipples can be freely shown on social media sites including the BBC's, those same nipples back when Elliot was Ellen would have been banned.

Yy.

This was my first thought. Press publishing photos of an in blurred topless female. How is this ok? Is it ok because of how the persons identifies or is it ok because they have had some breast tissue removed? In which case can I identify as a man today and go topless on TV? Or if it’s a breast tissue issue, how much breast tissue do I need to remove to be able to have my bare torso published unblurred in the press? What are the parameters?

@Mrsmadevans

I don't know who they are . Let them do what they like , they are not harming anyone.

This is a bit of an ignorant and naive comment.

I get that some people don't care what is reported in the press, great for them, but I think many of the posters here know how influential EP is on the young people we love and care for and can see that this headline is not helpful.

That's basically where we're coming from. Is that so bad?

In blurred= unblurred

@Mrsmadevans

I don't know who they are . Let them do what they like , they are not harming anyone.

Is this the new cancel the cheque?

@yourhairiswinterfire

The issue isn't an adult making their own decision.

The issue is that there has been a 4000+% rise in young girls claiming they're trans, and they're being told by celebrities/news outlets/charities that trans=suicidal, that if you don't get healthy body parts removed, you should feel suicidal.

Instead of crying 'transphobes', open your eyes and see how dangerous this is for young children. This is not how you discuss suicide, this is careless and fucking dangerous and it's inviting tragedy.

This.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

*And we, women, get turned down for it because we are told that "They are natural" "It won't be that bad" "Don't let this thing change you" "You look fine just as you are"" We don't fund cosmetic surgery"

I have been told ALL of those since I was 20 years old and my breasts were 36G! I have chronic neck and back pain because of it and over the years have been given all of those reasons. And now I am told that "at your age" it probably ins't worth it. I am 55!

Yet my transwoman friend asked , back in the 90s, and was fasttracked, even back then! Their mental health was deemed to be more fraglie than mine - odd given I was also called an hysterical woman when I cried on being told no, yet again!*

Sorry about your experience.

However my (non trans) friend was able to get a breast reduction on the NHS for mental and physical health reasons and didn't experience any of the things that you have.

That is a problem with the postcode lottery of the NHS and perhaps poor physicians that you have come across.

Did you really get called a "hysterical woman" by an NHS physician? What was the outcome of the complaint that you put in?

@Wannabangbang

It is lifesaving for a trans person. Only on Mn do transphobic people come out for all to see. See. It frequently on these boards.

Yep. There's a big difference between an intelligent debate around conceptual problems arising from trans theory, and a thread that abuses and belittles a specific trans person.

Of course, this thread will be gone in a couple of hours, and MN and its denizens can stick to their narrative that there is 'no transphobia here'.

@PopperUppleton

I can never understand why someone who has such severe and crippling dysphoria that they need 'life-saving' surgery was ever able to have a successful career and life and everything beforehand. And appears to be continuing to have a successful career and life. Not exactly that severe, surely?

So yes, have the surgery you want and can afford. But stop pushing the narrative that being trans will kill you if you don't have expensive surgery on otherwise healthy bodies. It's irresponsible, wrong and dangerous.

I agree. It's impossible to have a mental health problem and make a success of your life.

For absolute fuck's sake.