Government says it is too complex to make changes to the GRA to include non binary

[stumbledin]

As set out in the response to the Gender Recognition Act consultation, there are no plans to make changes to the 2004 Act.

Following a considerable amount of consultation with the public and representative organisations, the Government decided that the current provisions within the GRA allow for those that wish to legally change their sex to do so fairly.

The 2018 GRA consultation did not bring forward any proposals to extend the GRA to provide legal recognition to a third, or non-binary, gender. The Government noted that there were complex practical consequences for other areas of the law, service provision and public life if provision were to be made for non-binary gender recognition in the GRA.

In UK law individuals are considered to be the sex that is registered on their birth certificate – either male or female. The GRA provides a means for transgender people to change the sex on their birth certificate, but there is currently no provision for those who do not identify as male or female.

This Government wants everybody in the UK to feel safe and confident to be themselves.

We are committed to tackling all forms of homophobic, biphobic and transphobic hate crime, and are working with the Home Office on the cross-Government Hate Crime Action Plan. The Government has asked the Law Commission to review the current hate crime legislation, which includes exploring whether homophobic, biphobic and transphobic hate crime should be considered an aggravated offence. We will also take an assessment of local support for hate crime victims and improve reporting and recording of LGBT hate crimes through supporting additional police training.

Following Parliamentary approval on 8th October 2020, voluntary questions on sexual orientation and gender identity were included in the 2021 Census for England and Wales which took place on Sunday 21 March 2021. Final data on sexual orientation and gender identity from the 2021 Census for England and Wales will likely be available from 2023, with initial Census findings planned for publication in March 2022 (timelines subject to change as work progresses). This will help to provide more robust population size estimates for England and Wales than are currently available.

This Government is committed to supporting all LGBT people, tackling discrimination and improving the lives of all citizens.

Cabinet Office
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This is in response to a petition that I will not link to for fear this thread will get banished to the wastelands of the petition section.

But there is a news story here. uk.news.yahoo.com/non-binary-legal-recognition-too-153914753.html

What is according to EHRC?

Please re-read what I said.

I understand perfectly well what you said, thanks.

All the arguments you are making apply equally to the Stonewall gang.

Please engage with the points people have made when people have taken the trouble to explain why they disagree. You just keep repeating that some women consent. So? I do not. Many women on this thread, do not. Millions of women do not.

@BlueLipstickRocks

It's not "one person"confused, how dismissive and arrogant.

Must we resort to name calling?

Please re-read what I said.

I said "the notion that".

And no, it isnt a third of women according to EHRC.

It doesn't matter how many women are fine with sharing with males. The single-sex provision is there, is written into law to be there, for the females who DO MIND.

The ones who don't mind sharing are welcome to share mixed sex spaces with males. What they cannot do is give single-sex provision to males, because that is there for the female people who do not consent to sharing.

Here is what YouGov say:

"Women tend to reject the argument that allowing transgender women to use female facilities puts them at risk. By 46% to 28% women say that doing so does not present any genuine risk of harm."

So it is a significant number of women that believe allowing MTF trans people to use female facilities puts them at risk. Another 26% are undecided, with 46% thinking they do not. So that is 54% of women who have reservations on the grounds of safety about allowing MTF trans people to use female facilities. There are also other reasons to prefer female only spaces than fear of sexual assault by males. Privacy and dignity.

There are about 34 million women and girls in the U.K.

There's a difference between consent, consensus and policies forced onto women.

Your perceived or real entitlement to be in women's spaces and opportunities, is not based on consent.

So it is a significant number of women that believe allowing MTF trans people to use female facilities puts them at risk. Another 26% are undecided, with 46% thinking they do not. So that is 54% of women who have reservations on the grounds of safety about allowing MTF trans people to use female facilities. There are also other reasons to prefer female only spaces than fear of sexual assault by males. Privacy and dignity.

Once again the conflation of transgender and transsexual.

They are not the same thing.

Once again the conflation of transgender and transsexual.

They are not the same thing.

They are to me, when it comes to males in my spaces I don't make any distinction.

And the solution therefore is to push transexuals back into male spaces, and ignore the repercussions?

The repercussions for women were ignored.

The Equality Act allows for legal exclusion. We are all entitled to discuss those boundaries.

Surgery is a massive diversion when identity is invoked as taking precedence. Until identity is taken off the table 100 percent push back is inevitable.

@BlueLipstickRocks

So it is a significant number of women that believe allowing MTF trans people to use female facilities puts them at risk. Another 26% are undecided, with 46% thinking they do not. So that is 54% of women who have reservations on the grounds of safety about allowing MTF trans people to use female facilities. There are also other reasons to prefer female only spaces than fear of sexual assault by males. Privacy and dignity.

Once again the conflation of transgender and transsexual.

They are not the same thing.

You have no idea what YouGov meant by "transgender women", nor what the women responding considered a "transgender woman" to be.

In fact, we know from other surveys that most women think a "transgender woman" is a "post-op transsexual".

Once again the conflation of transgender and transsexual.

The assumption by you is that people answered the YouGov survey positively based on them interpreting "transgender women" as post surgery. That's borne out in their different, negative answers when they were specifically asked about males who had not had surgery.

In fact, we know from other surveys that most women think a "transgender woman" is a "post-op transsexual".

We know from this one, as when they were specifically asked about non op, they mostly said no.

There are factors other than safety at play too. Personally, I think 6 is the oldest a boy should use women's toilets. Plenty of women disagree with me.

Not so very long ago there was a boy of about 8 in the ladies loos, giggling and trying to peek at women through the gap in the doors. Highly inappropriate. I felt perfectly safe, but I wasn't comfortable with him there.

It isn't just about safety.

*Once again the conflation of transgender and transsexual.

They are not the same thing.

They are to me, when it comes to males in my spaces I don't make any distinction.*

And that is a disgusting thing to say.

You dont get to tell me the importance of defining the meaning of "woman" and the importance of preserving language whilst at the same time turning round and dismissing what I am and refusing to recognise transsexual is diffent to transgender.

It is hypocritical to expect me to do something you refuse to do yourself.

It isn't just about safety.

It isn't. It's also about being able to be recognised as a class that is independent and separate to men.

Once 'women' becomes a woolly word that means different things in different situations, and more crucially includes male/men, we lose the ability to organise without men and without their permission.

Once 'women' becomes a woolly word that means different things in different situations, and more crucially includes male/men, we lose the ability to organise without men and without their permission.

But its ok to make transsexual a wooly word; to decide its all just the same, no different to transgender or anything else.

This is a feminist board. I focus on the rights of women and girls, I have absolutely no interest in the different definitions under the trans umbrella. They can be as woolly as you want them to be. It's your movement, fuck all to do with me.

Even if it could possibly be proven,that surgery/ wearing 'feminine' clothing / hormones ect,reduced men's rate of offending to that of a woman, I would still say no to men in women's spaces. Because they are men,and women's spaces are not a prize for the most passing or worthy.
Like another pp,a few years ago, I shared a joke about people the US fighting about who used women's bathrooms,whilst I was peeing in my horse trailer. I knew no better. I'm completely ashamed that I thought it jokeworthy now. I didn't know then that it was the start of being expected to roll over and hand my hard won rights,freedoms and protections to any male who fancied helping himself.
I do not consent.

This is a feminist board. I focus on the rights of women and girls, I have absolutely no interest in the different definitions under the trans umbrella. They can be as woolly as you want them to be. It's your movement, fuck all to do with me.

Why is it my movement ? It has nothing to do with me.

Since the focus is on woman and girls what spaces do you beleive transmen should use?

This is a feminist board. I focus on the rights of women and girls, I have absolutely no interest in the different definitions under the trans umbrella.

Same here. This is not women's issue.

The point is and will always be that "woman" is an adult human female and it is ''males" and only "males" who are attempting to redefine this.

The second point is and will always be that when it comes to 'consent' around the usage of toilets - women were NEVER asked in the past. Women have been TOLD by males that those males have the right to use that space (and even male doctors telling male patients that now they have had operations they can use spaces that male doctors had NO RIGHT to give away). Those males NEVER even considered the needs of the females using them and NEVER did anything about creating spaces for their own needs.

The third point is and will always be some females have needs that require these spaces to remain for females. That other females show no empathy for those females needs still doesn't mean they can sign away all rights to female single sex spaces. It just doesn't work that way.

Let's not get caught up in what sub set of the category of males people belong in, regardless of what body parts they do and do not have, or the way they choose to present themselves.

And that is a disgusting thing to say.

No. My boundaries are not disgusting. I simply don't want males in female spaces. Any of them. It's not personal, it's just what I feel is appropriate.

Same here. This is not women's issue.

Of course transgenderism is womens issue. Transgender is everyones issue in its current form.

What seems to be happening though is a focus on trans only where it effects women. When the problem can be dismissed it will be.

You seem to have misunderstood my point. Again.

"And that is a disgusting thing to say.

No. My boundaries are not disgusting. I simply don't want males in female spaces. Any of them. It's not personal, it's just what I feel is appropriate."

I was not referring to you boundaries as you well know. I was referring to your refusal to accept that transgender and transsexual are not the same thing. This is grossly offensive.

Is it ok to say that a post op transsexual is the same as a cross dressing fetishist? All just men?