Terrified of regressive modern feminism

[TRHR]

By saying "you can't be a woman if you're born without a vagina, and if you're born with a vagina you must be a woman" you're making reproductive organs the defining and most important characteristic of being a woman. This attitude was used to oppress women for centuries. We were baby makers only, and hormonal and chromosomal differences were used to say that we were too "emotional " for public life, education and jobs. Only over the last 100 or so years have our minds and emotions been rightfully recognised as just as important as our vaginas. GC is now going back to seeing our sex organs as our most important identifier and as a feminist and a young woman this really scares me. It is playing right into the traditional patriarchy, is sexist, regressive and oppressive. The fact its being done in the name of 'feminism ' terrifies me. The recent historic implications of insisting women are defined by their bodies scares me. These views are still held by conservative (often religion based) communities and we've all seen how easy it is for these groups to gain power - feminists shouldn't be helping them justify their attitudes or behaviour.

If you've seen/read the Handmaid's Tale you'll know what attitudes I'm afraid of. GCs ironically tell TRAs they are 'handmaids' when actually it is their attitude that has historically led to the oppression that Attwood (who is trans inclusive) bases her books on.

Gender is not a set of stereotypes - it's an identity based on culture, history, society , psychology and often (but not always) sex. It's far more freeing than "vagina = woman" and takes account of each of us as individuals not just bodies, which is what feminism up until now has fought for.
As an example, many trans women don't wear "girly " clothes, they identify as "masculine/butch" lesbians. Many trans men still like wearing make up and dresses e.g. in drag.
Many people would say the world shouldn't be defined as 'male / female' at all. But it always has done, that won't be changed in our lifetime. So seen as that is our social structure, it's oppressive to police how people choose to move through life under this structure based on bodies.
Thanks for reading this far and if I get one extra person to consider the harm that GC is doing, especially to young women of child bearing age, it'll be worth the condescension and vitriol that this post will inevitably receive.

@WarriorN

I'm alway truly thankful to ploppers who start fresh threads with a wealth of insightful and clever analysis, reaffirming my position and I'm sure helping others to learn more about Why Sex Matters.

Sorry to lower the tone, but the word 'ploppers' is hilarious, and the perfect descriptor for the scenario here.

I agree, it give the skilled and knowledgeable feminists here a great platform to pass on their knowledge. I learn a lot and I know a lot of lurkers do too.

Thanks OP for plopping in!

Oh, come on, please! Someone has to manage to squeeze out just a tiny bit of "vitriol" for OP: she's expecting it of us and we're proving such a disappointment. 😢

You're looking at it back to front and up side down, OP. Women/feminists fought to be recognised as people - people with minds and emotions regardless of our physical bodies. We fought for it to be recognised that our sex and physical bodies do not define or constrain how we feel and think. Now, through gender ideology, we're being told minds and emotions are inherently male or female. It's a step backwards. It's what we fought against. I do not have an inherently female mind or inherently female emotions. I am a woman because of my physical body. I will not be told by anyone that my brain, mind and emotions are female ones.

OP you're totally right.

Couldn't agree more that using terms such as person with a vagina is way less reductive, reduces us to our genitals in no way at all.

Happy Birthing people day!

Gender is not a set of stereotypes
As an example, many trans women don't wear "girly " clothes, they identify as "masculine/butch" lesbians.

You only know what 'girly' clothes and 'butch' are because of a set of stereotypes.

You haven't proposed an argument as to why there shouldn't be a word to describe the female sex class. I assume you don't have one other than "it's terrifying" for some non-specified reason.

You also seem very confused about the meaning and concepts of the word "defining". I'd go so far as to say it's the defining point of your post.

Not that you'll be back!

(and just adding to the lolz here at 'young women of child bearing age' - it's almost... almost... as if you know what a woman is!)

Thank you to WeeBisom for a blistering explanation of proper feminism. I wish it could be pinned somewhere -could you c&p it onto the ‘break it down for me’ thread..?

Hey, op. Any thoughts?

And there was me thinking that you are a woman if you have two X chromosomes.

It sometimes makes me wonder why I did a human biology A-level.

Feminism is about the liberation of a certain class of human. Over history, and today, one class of human has been oppressed by another class of human. How do we categorise these people, how do we know who it is doing the oppressing and who is the oppressed? As someone else said, if you can't name sex, you can't tackle sexism. Because you don't know which people you are talking about.

The root of women's oppression is biology. In order to liberate women, this biology needs to be acknowledged. It doesn't mean that women are defined by their biology, acknowledging biology doesn't define women in that way.

As an aside, if all in your OP is true, then how does one actually know if they are 'a woman of child bearing age'?

A conservative may say:
It's the woman's job to cook dinner.
It's the man's job to mow the lawn.

A proponent of gender identity puts forward this view:
^Whoever cooks dinner is the woman*.
Whoever mows the lawn is the man.

A feminist would say:
Both men and women can do either of those jobs. Sex is irrelevant here.

This ^^. And it can't be said enough.

And what's happened now is that because it clearly is all about stereotypes, you have people saying that you get butch transwomen who dress like 'men'. In which case, the obvious question is what the hell are they identifying with, or as, and how are they doing it?

You get no answer.

Because there is no way to be a woman, other than being one.

If biology and the actual physical body don't matter at all why the need for puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery to create a ressemblance of the typical body of the other sex?

''Feminism is harmful to young women'' isn't too far from MRA territory.

I disagree that the op won't come back. I predict they will pop in again later with another telling off, and that it will be even longer than the first.

Since we're talking about clothes

@Igneococcus

If biology and the actual physical body don't matter at all why the need for puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and surgery to create a ressemblance of the typical body of the other sex?

Mainly for kids and young trans men though. Adult TW seem to feel far freer to expect people to respect the realities of their sexed bodies. Strange that.

And OP, bless you. You'll learn in your own time probably after having kids.

@Thelnebriati

''Feminism is harmful to young women'' isn't too far from MRA territory.

I think these ploppers are really helpful in shedding light on the arguments. Some fabulous contributions on this thread.

Yes thanks @TRHR for starting this thread. I now have the language to articulate exactly what is so incoherent about gender identity politics and just how damaging and regressive it is to women.

So THIS is what you think GC Feminists think? Who told you this? Because you’ve been woefully misinformed. And you know what? Your post gives me hope. Because when you actually work out that you’ve got hold of the wrong end of the stick, you’ll understand what this is all about. I hope you aren’t doing this for performative reasons and are genuinely open to the realisation that you’ve completely misunderstood the situation? And when you do, I hope you can spread the word amongst all your ‘women of child-bearing age’ friends and colleagues. Because it’s a monumental thing we’re dealing with here as women and we need our allies. So read the posts (OK there are some who are suspicious of your intentions and some who’ve expressed their exasperation but you’ll hopefully learn that that’s because it’s bloody annoying and depressing to be constantly told that we ‘define ourselves by our vaginas’ and are ‘obsessed by genitals’ when we’re just wanting to defend our rights as women)

Hopefully by reading this thread and following up on some of the links you’ll be able to come out from behind the sofa.

If you are 'terrified' by feminists who are fighting for women and girls to have their own sex class, assert their boundaries, have the ability to say No to men and who reject that insidious tool of horrific oppression that is gender, then I suggest you seek appropriate professional mental health support and leave women and girls alone.

Mainly for kids and young trans men though. Adult TW seem to feel far freer to expect people to respect the realities of their sexed bodies. Strange that.

Yes exactly - when it's older men transitioning the narrative is "I'm a woman because I say so and penises can be female!" When it's 13 year old girls, they must be able to access breast amputation surgery ASAP or they'll all kill themselves immediately - it's very odd how that turned out.

@Floisme

I disagree that the op won't come back. I predict they will pop in again later with another telling off, and that it will be even longer than the first.

Is that even possible? How much longer do you reckon?

'Gender is not a set of stereotypes'.

Please explain what gender is without using stereotypes.

I hope that @TRHR has read this thread.
Careful though, almost every GC individual I have ever met started out "woke" and turned GC after reading what we have to say. It might even be catching.