Terrified of regressive modern feminism

[TRHR]

By saying "you can't be a woman if you're born without a vagina, and if you're born with a vagina you must be a woman" you're making reproductive organs the defining and most important characteristic of being a woman. This attitude was used to oppress women for centuries. We were baby makers only, and hormonal and chromosomal differences were used to say that we were too "emotional " for public life, education and jobs. Only over the last 100 or so years have our minds and emotions been rightfully recognised as just as important as our vaginas. GC is now going back to seeing our sex organs as our most important identifier and as a feminist and a young woman this really scares me. It is playing right into the traditional patriarchy, is sexist, regressive and oppressive. The fact its being done in the name of 'feminism ' terrifies me. The recent historic implications of insisting women are defined by their bodies scares me. These views are still held by conservative (often religion based) communities and we've all seen how easy it is for these groups to gain power - feminists shouldn't be helping them justify their attitudes or behaviour.

If you've seen/read the Handmaid's Tale you'll know what attitudes I'm afraid of. GCs ironically tell TRAs they are 'handmaids' when actually it is their attitude that has historically led to the oppression that Attwood (who is trans inclusive) bases her books on.

Gender is not a set of stereotypes - it's an identity based on culture, history, society , psychology and often (but not always) sex. It's far more freeing than "vagina = woman" and takes account of each of us as individuals not just bodies, which is what feminism up until now has fought for.
As an example, many trans women don't wear "girly " clothes, they identify as "masculine/butch" lesbians. Many trans men still like wearing make up and dresses e.g. in drag.
Many people would say the world shouldn't be defined as 'male / female' at all. But it always has done, that won't be changed in our lifetime. So seen as that is our social structure, it's oppressive to police how people choose to move through life under this structure based on bodies.
Thanks for reading this far and if I get one extra person to consider the harm that GC is doing, especially to young women of child bearing age, it'll be worth the condescension and vitriol that this post will inevitably receive.

"People will describe gender dysphoria and people will describe sexual attraction but what does that mean when you're a kid and you have no context?" - GNC Ben.

What are you going to tell kids?

The whole ideology is gaslighty, abusive and coercive.

I also really want to know why transwomen need to have a vagina. If we must talk about vaginas.

Yes, if anyone can have vaginas or penises and there is no connection to "gender", why is it the "wrong body"?

To you it's regressive to them (including many intelligent and well respected women like Emma Watson and Michelle Obama) it's progressive

To many intelligent and well respected women its regressive 😒

@Helen8220

yes you read them? or no you didn't read them. If you skipped the last 8 pages, surely didn't carefully read and consider them all?

I carefully read and considered all of the responses in the first 10 pages.

Great - could you answer my question?

It's quite simple: is being a 'woman' tied to a specific culture/society? If I went to live in another society, where I did not identify with the history/psychology/culture etc. of 'womanhood' as understood by that society, would I cease to be a woman? Likewise, if a woman from another society came to live in the UK, and did not identify with the culture etc. here, would she cease to be a woman?

Why or why not?

Yes, your sex organs define wether you are male or female.

My 7 year old son was told by a friend the other day that they used to have a sister, but now they have a brother because the doctor gave them some medicine and now they are a boy. A dangerous simplification to give to a child. Also a lie.

Children, and especially children who have additional needs, autism or other vulnerabilities due to home circumstances, only see the world in simplistic terms.

For safeguarding reasons, they need to know what is concrete.

The minute we start twisting facts, we are essentially coercive.

Father Xmas and the tooth fairy, as fun and useful as they are (yes my 8 yr old still believes) are for coercive purposes. (As anyone who's tried to get kids to clean their teeth will know.)

That's harmless. They learn the fiction; but some don't. Children with learning differences may not. They are SO vulnerable to abuse.

The lgbtq theories are so coercive.

Correction; The TQ theories are so coercive.

It's difficult to be sure what women like Watson and Obama really think because the cost of women not toeing the line is so great and it is mostly women who have this layer of societal, coercive pressure applied to them.

Elon Musk has been critical of gender ideology in a much less respectful way than JK Rowling yet has not faced punishment and 'cancellation' in the same way she has.

He was given a spot hosting SNL at the weekend, the same show and cast members that were so disparaging about Rowling. Not one of the cast members refused to appear in protest or seemingly have a problem with his views on gender. Funny that!

Out of all the questions that never get answered on here, the question: What do bodies have to do with gender? never gets properly explored or answered by people thinking gender trumps sex/gender exists and sex doesn't.

The same people that say men can look like Kim Kardashian and still be 100% men, be as male as any other man (which I have no problem wtih), then go on to say 'it's self-explanatory' why trans men have surgery to remove their male breasts.
If gender is completely unrelated to bodies, free from the restrictions of sexed bodies, why on earth does it SO OFTEN, and in fact is assumed to be an automatic part of being transgender, coincide with very drastic surgery and lifelong medication of otherwise healthy bodies with lots of fairly major side-effects?

When I was talking to the NHS about being trans they straight away asked me about transitioning which involved hormones and surgery. It was like you can't transition from one gender to another - or fully 'to' your innate gender - without changing your body. Why?

The only answer I've been given so far on here was (from a TRA) saying that penises are 'male physicalities' because the number of men with penises is greater than the number of women (no, I don't know how this was measured either). So it's a 'popularity' (in terms of statistics, not trends) thing?

Yes and why is non binary frequently "default male?"

Non binary women seem to have to get a mastectomy these days. (Thus completely disabling any opportunity to have the choice to breastfeed, and potentially having issues with fluid buildup in their arms due to damaged glands.)

The men just wear makeup.

It's still an aesthetic.

I mainly want to know why middle aged transwomen who are keeping their penises seems so keen that young girls can puberty blockers and later cross sex hormones. They are over here arguing that a lot.

Either bodies matter or they don’t.

Yeah that's a weird one 🤔

I also can't unsee the films I saw last week of transwomen with penises (and without actually) in public loos masturbating with women and children audibly heard in next door cubicles. That's the latest porn and only fans trend apparently.

I can imagine

@WarriorN

Yeah that's a weird one 🤔

I also can't unsee the films I saw last week of transwomen with penises (and without actually) in public loos masturbating with women and children audibly heard in next door cubicles. That's the latest porn and only fans trend apparently.

Christ, that was disturbing. Not enough eye bleach in the world for that!!

WarriorN that is so gross 🤮🤮🙏

You really don't want to. 🤢

Was it at the Tavistock that some clinicians had serious concerns about the reasons some parents were being so pushy about getting their kids onto hormones?

You really don't want to. 🤢

Was it at the Tavistock that some clinicians had serious concerns about the reasons some parents were being so pushy about getting their kids onto hormones?

That was on twitter by the way.

Genuine question, do any of the philosophers eg Butler, talk about safeguarding?

@TinselAngel

If your response to the question "What is a woman?" is to give a reading list, you're over complicating something that can be answered in three words.

I like this @TinselAngel

I have read and reread your posts OP.

I think you have never outlined how you think this works at a practical level. You remain discussing theories and chiding women over reading or not reading authors.

Instead of discussing theories, let’s discuss how this impacts on everyday life.

• employment- someone brought up gendered boards which is actually very appropriate. Do you think that a gender balanced board represents the needs of females if the board is 50% men (all being male) and 50% transwomen? There is currently one board we know of that is supposed to be balanced but is 75% male at the moment. So, this scenario proposed is not an ‘extreme example’.

Do you think that women’s officer roles being taken by males, not be females, ensure that females are being adequately represented in setting policy that females need?

Do you believe that sex discrimination, which is still very prevalent, can be addressed thoroughly if statistics are being skewed? Do you believe that females are discriminated against from birth? (I didn’t want to, but I have seen it with my own eyes how my own child has been discriminated against on account of their sex through sport even in 2021)

That brings me to sport and I believe it too has been mentioned a few times. Have you read the current studies and reviews of previous studies? Do you agree that females need to have their own sports category for both safety and fairness in light of these studies? If not, why not?

Finally, do you agree that women need single sex provisions and spaces.

Such as prisons and refuges. To be clear, female prison estates and female refuges with no males regardless of how they identify?

Do you agree that women should have the right to ask for female health care professional and be confident that they are not being lied to in the HCP they have? ie. Not have a male who identifies as a woman come to give them their internal examination after a rape or ... any appointment when it is reasonable to request a same sex professional.

All this discussion about authors and theories may well be interesting. But let’s discuss how it applies to real life.

My 7 year old son was told by a friend the other day that they used to have a sister, but now they have a brother because the doctor gave them some medicine and now they are a boy. A dangerous simplification to give to a child. Also a lie.

James at age 3 and then 5 nearly 6 years old demonstrates how children learn to categorise and understand sex.
This is standard child development and langauge acquisition.

Kohlberg demonstrations

Dr Katie Alcock (lecturer Lancaster University, Development Psychology) describes this process:
medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

@WarriorN

You really don't want to. 🤢

Was it at the Tavistock that some clinicians had serious concerns about the reasons some parents were being so pushy about getting their kids onto hormones?

It was. My laptop hard drive has died so I can't link, but the it was in The Times. Headline something like It feels like conversion therapy. (There's an archived version if anyone can find it)

Clinicians were worried that some homophobic parents were pushing their children down this path. Another had concerns because one dad in particular was really pushy, desperate for his daughter to get puberty blockers. The clinician said that looking back, she's worried that he may have been a paedophile.

It was a grim read.

Why might a trans man not be placed in a male prison?

These discussions always centre people who were born male and decide they're female.

These discussions always centre people who were born male.

These discussions centre born males.

These discussions centre males.

How is this progressive feminism?

Thanks your hair, it was a grim read.