Was on the fence and now furious

[Ostryga]

I’ve followed this board for a long time and never had the guts to post, but I’ve just seen a tiktok that has made me so angry I don’t actually know what to do with myself! Hence the confidence to actually post.

I have a 4 year old daughter and am trying to ride the line between inclusivity and outrage. I know she’s going to grow up in a very different world from me, and now I want the resources to be able to give an actual argument.

I am angry, and I don’t want to be angry, I want to be informed. I know it’s not anyone’s responsibility to educate me, but this is such a good resource.

Well you're welcome OP and you're in good company. I'm regularly furious but knowing I'm not alone helps. Read around the board, get involved, look up the grassroots campaigns largely born by MN such as Let Toys Be Toys and all that came afterwards (fair play for women, safe schools alliance, standing for women, etc).

As your daughter is 4 you have time to look at your chosen school's policies and maybe invest in a My Body is Me book by Rachel Rooney or ask your local library to order it in.

You're here now, might as well get stuck in!

What was the tiktok post?

A word of warning (for your blood pressure!) - the more you read the angrier you'll get.

And when you think you've got as angry as you possibly can, something else will come along to ratchet that fury just a little further!

Not sure if I can post it here, but happy to do so if allowed!

It would be a pity to get yourself a deletion this early in your delurk!

Maybe give the gist of what the TikTok was, and try and gauge if it’s likely to draw negative attention? The board moderation seems to have tightened up quite a lot of late, and weird things are getting deletions that never used to.

Also, welcome

So the gist is that uterus does not equal a biological female.
And that someone having a uterus does not mean they’re a biological woman, it means they have a uterus
And he is a man that gave birth, it doesn’t matter with what equipment.

And so here I am.

Welcome, OP.

The anger is understandable. Nobody likes being gaslighted, browbeaten or bullied. And women simply need their sex-based rights.

Lots of info and knowledgeable posters here, though. Dig in!

@FuriousAndFrustrated

A word of warning (for your blood pressure!) - the more you read the angrier you'll get.

And when you think you've got as angry as you possibly can, something else will come along to ratchet that fury just a little further!

Yeah, this ^

I thought getting to 62 would give me a chilled head. But here we are.

Yes lots of us have found this board for similar reasons.

It's just getting silly out there, isn't it.

Can we treat people kindly and respectfully without all sense and reason going down the plug hole.

You are most welcome OP.

Although you might have read this link already, why not have a look at this from time to time as events occur or new studies published etc.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Otherwise, join in the threads. Not all of us agree all of the time. But most posters are all for discussing the rights of women and girls.

And he is a man that gave birth, it doesn’t matter with what equipment.

Haha fly that past any man and watch their eyebrows.

Just do your best to inform your daughter as she grows up to take everything with a pinch of salt and look at all perspectives before coming to her own conclusion.

Honestly - Tik Tok is telling kids such bulls**t, but at age four you still have time to educate her in the actual way bodies work. Plus by the time she is 8,9,10 - this current movement will mostly have been seen for what it is and it will be no longer acceptable to lie to children.

And he is a man that gave birth, it doesn’t matter with what equipment.

If it was with anything other than a uterus, it sort of matters a little bit....
How anyone can say that with a straight face baffles me!

I came here originally to find out what the unkind and intolerant arguments actually were, from the people allegedly being transphobic. I'm never going to gel with everyone on here but there are a few who really know how to articulate the key issues.

The posts by people claiming to think that TWAW in all cases are the ones who have illuminated how nonsensical it is.

There are precious few that do try to engage and articulate their viewpoint well from the other side but they seem to get frustrated and keep away, unfortunately.

Welcome OP. I too came here because of children in my life getting fed a lot of nonsense science.

FWIW, I have an older teen DD who REALLY was all TWAW, and still kinda is, but recently, she's experienced some interesting conversations on TikTok and now realizes that there is a great deal of misinformation floating about regarding all kinds of labeling of sexuality and identity. She's slowing starting to get it.

However, it's almost a deprograming from her crap education in health class...I have done my best w/ DD2 who is a tween, but the TikTok misinformation is REAL and constant. Keep pushing accurate reproductive information. While 4 is quite young (my goodness, that's the age they believe in fairies, super heroes, etc.), she is also young enough that she'll will trust her mother more than anyone.

Good luck. You are not alone. We are legion.

Welcome Ostryga, I remember finding the board, reading and then evetually finding the courage to post. It gets easier and as a collective its a powerful antidote to the misinformation that has undermined Safeguarding and women's rights (which no doubt is why some monitors are determined to disrupt from within and without)

@AvocadoBathroom

Honestly - Tik Tok is telling kids such bulls**t, but at age four you still have time to educate her in the actual way bodies work. Plus by the time she is 8,9,10 - this current movement will mostly have been seen for what it is and it will be no longer acceptable to lie to children.

i agree be grateful your DD is 4 not 14 or 24 sometime soon this will all be a bad dream and we will be in the position of saying 'I told you so...' but sadly many people will have been damaged along the way.

The first time I talked to DD about transgender issues was in primary school. She had a book from the library'100 inspiring women' which on the whole was lovely and we enjoyed reading together.

Then we got to the obligatory transwoman (think it was Jaz Jennings) page and she looks at me very puzzled 'but this says this person was born a boy and they changed into a girl'. I have got to correct that haven't I? I can't let my DD be confused and believe that this could actually happen. She might believe it could happen to her somehow.

So I went with 'some people believe' but you and I know that it couldn't really happen. It's sad that some people are unhappy with how they are born and we shouldn't be mean to them but no you definitely cannot change sex.

Then a few years later just when she's starting secondary school a girl in her class decides she is now a boy. I was glad we had that discussion early and we continue to have these discussions and she knows what my view is and what other views are out there and so far (aged 14) she still agrees with me but I know that may not last.

I think it is important to discuss this stuff early whilst they still have any respect for anything you say! I was always sacred DD might be picked on for having the 'wrong' views though so I am careful to say she should be kind to people who are suffering but that does not extend to having to share a changing room with a natal male.

@FuriousAndFrustrated

A word of warning (for your blood pressure!) - the more you read the angrier you'll get.

And when you think you've got as angry as you possibly can, something else will come along to ratchet that fury just a little further!

Yes, definitely this! I think because it's all so familiar to many of us...the gaslighting, and belittling of our experience as unworthy, the shutting down of women's voices, the appropriation of anything female.

This is nothing new, it's just dressed up as something else.

Welcome OP.

Also, it would help in the years to come if you limited your child's exposure to social media - which can be toxic and very manipulative.

And he is a man that gave birth, it doesn’t matter with what equipment.

Sometime my only response to this madness is humour;

13yr old DD talking last night about her school friends:
“If I lived in a different environment I’d probably think I was non-binary or something, because I like wearing make-up but I prefer dark baggy t-shirts. But because I live with you and dad I know that doesn’t mean anything, I’m still a girl. Just like dad does all the cooking and laundry, but he likes sport and going to the gym, and wears flowery shirts and that stupid unicorn mask.”
I know it’s still early days, but it was definitely one of my proudest parenting moments. Just be open, keep talking - be the protective factor in your daughter’s life.

@Palindromic that is absolutely wonderful. Really cheered me up!

I'm also loving your post @Palindromic

Haha where can I get a stupid unicorn mask for DH

Love the pregnant man comedy clip WeeDonkey. Surely wouldn't be made these days??

@Palindromic

13yr old DD talking last night about her school friends: “If I lived in a different environment I’d probably think I was non-binary or something, because I like wearing make-up but I prefer dark baggy t-shirts. But because I live with you and dad I know that doesn’t mean anything, I’m still a girl. Just like dad does all the cooking and laundry, but he likes sport and going to the gym, and wears flowery shirts and that stupid unicorn mask.” I know it’s still early days, but it was definitely one of my proudest parenting moments. Just be open, keep talking - be the protective factor in your daughter’s life.

Wonderful, truly wonderful. Well done!