University staff given list of banned 'microinsults' they cannot say to trans people

[ChristinaXYZ]

From the Telegraph. the last para make you want to weep -

A Newcastle University spokesman said: "We want our campus to be a welcoming and safe place for everyone who studies, works or visits here, regardless of gender, race, class, age or disability."

But it would seem they are not bothered about making people feel welcome regardless of sex, as they don't even mention it.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

That was in response to the post about the thread being derailed.

Thanks Alfonso.

Those two have it in for me personally hence why the post goes over my head. Anything I write is derailing in their world.

Anyway.

Back to micro aggressions :)

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

The solution is easy: use the scroll button.

I'd like to read about the topic the thread title actually denotes. Otherwise I would find - or in my case actually studiously avoid - one that challenges the veracity of sexual assault incidents on university campuses.

This one is about restrictions on language imposed on university staff.

Fair point - but I didn't bring up the debate about rape statistics and that was a discussion before I arrived, whicj you ignored before you saw an opportunity to harass me again.

It appears derailing is only derailing if it's a point you don't agree with in your world.

Butwasitherdriveway You said:

What I am negating is the idea, which was drummed into me when I went to uni I'm a city having grown up in a small town that random women being raped in the streets is a common or alarming occurrence.

I don't believe anyone here is suggesting that - and who "drummed that" into you?

What IS widespread and commonplace is the treatment of girls and women as if misogyny, sexual assault and the rest are acceptable.

I didn't suggest you're a man - what your use of "chinned" did suggest was that you have a misogynistic way of looking at violence against women.

Butitwasherdriveway

What happened with your apology the other day for your really quite argumentative and rude behaviour on previous threads?

Rape occurs at alarming rates everywhere. Trying to be clever by distinguishing between rape and sexual assault to win an argument on the internet is disgusting.

@Butwasitherdriveway

Anyway.

Back to micro aggressions :)

I knew this was beginning to remind me of something

vimeo.com/352042585

I'm going to uni this year, and I have to say this is one of my main worries. Like a PP I struggle with pronouns (I would find it really hard to use incorrectly sexed pronouns because I find it pretty much impossible to lie/pretend). My plan is just to avoid trans people. I wouldn't have done so before all this extremism but I don't think I could deal with the stress now. However it seems avoidance is now a crime.

What has happened to teaching young adults to be robust and resilient, that people are going to have different opinions, and that the world is not there to validate them? Where has the common sense gone?

Rape occurs at alarming rates everywhere.

It does. And so much goes unreported as well.

Anyone who claims that rape and sexual assault of women rarely happens on university campuses may well find that they are the last person that a friend or acquaintance discloses assaults to.

After all, when someone shows you who they are..... you believe them.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Butitwasherdriveway

What happened with your apology the other day for your really quite argumentative and rude behaviour on previous threads?

I certainly wasn't apologising to you 😂 I'm not going to interact with you or Mariel on any thread.

I am not risking suspension for retaliation to your bullying and harassment from day one on this site. Do your worst

@persistentwoman

Anyone who claims that rape and sexual assault of women rarely happens on university campuses may well find that they are the last person that a friend or acquaintance discloses assaults to.

After all, when someone shows you who they are..... you believe them.

Mm.

Except I would never disbelieve a victim.

Suggesting that the reason I have made it through two degrees without hearing of it in my own circles or on campus because they all must be keeping it secret and hiding it.

Ok.

Or it's not as widespread as people would have us believe.

This is a circular argument.

One is too many.

But this suggestion that random women being pulled into the shadows on campuses and raped at a high level is a fallacy.

It's far more likely in peoples homes with someone they know. That is a fact.

@IAmFleshIAmBone

I'm going to uni this year, and I have to say this is one of my main worries. Like a PP I struggle with pronouns (I would find it really hard to use incorrectly sexed pronouns because I find it pretty much impossible to lie/pretend). My plan is just to avoid trans people. I wouldn't have done so before all this extremism but I don't think I could deal with the stress now. However it seems avoidance is now a crime.

What has happened to teaching young adults to be robust and resilient, that people are going to have different opinions, and that the world is not there to validate them? Where has the common sense gone?

Why on earth should we put the feelings of someone who can't possibly accept that the person before them is a she to the feelings of trans?

The inability to lie argument infuriates me.

Do you tell your friends their hair looks awful, their dress doesn't suit them or they've put weight on?

I am not risking suspension for retaliation to your bullying and harassment from day one on this site. Do your worst

Stop lying. Being disagreed with on feminism threads is not "bullying and harassment". We are sometimes on the same threads. I'm not following you and I consider your behaviour to me constantly centring yourself in my use of MN harassment. Grow up.

You apologised for the obvious problem you have with your interactions on this site. Like several others I took it with a truckload of salt. I feel vindicated.

My plan is just to avoid trans people. I wouldn't have done so before all this extremism but I don't think I could deal with the stress now. However it seems avoidance is now a crime.

I really sympathise with would-be students who find themselves in this position. They will find themselves effectively silenced, in a climate in which criticality (the previous backbone of the H.E. system) has given way to a world of Newspeak, Doublethink and linguistic contortionism.

Your concern about avoidance now being seen as a form of aggression is one I share. There is something worrying coercive about this movement. It's a language women are all-too familiar with and it's so regressive as to defy belief. How could we have gone this far backward this quickly?

What has happened to teaching young adults to be robust and resilient, that people are going to have different opinions, and that the world is not there to validate them?

Agreed. What's happened to teaching itself for that matter? As another lecturer posted upthread, they don't care how students dress or present themselves: it's irrelevant to their education and contributions to seminar discussions which should be staff's sole overriding concern.

A situation where lack of engagement in a particularly incendiary, controversial issue is seen as a 'micro-aggression' is deeply worrying IMO. For as long as this remains written into policy, criticality (and that's the least of it) is up the creek.

Do you tell your friends their hair looks awful, their dress doesn't suit them or they've put weight on?

You can not mention hair, dresses and weight quite easily. (Are you one of those strange people who thinks that's all women talk about?)

It's much harder to completely avoid ever referring to someone in the third person.

Your concern about avoidance now being seen as a form of aggression is one I share. There is something worrying coercive about this movement. It's a language women are all-too familiar with and it's so regressive as to defy belief. How could we have gone this far backward this quickly?

It's awful. Nothing is ever enough, because it's all about power and controlling others. So when one concession is made, activists demand more and more.

A situation where lack of engagement in a particularly incendiary, controversial issue is seen as a 'micro-aggression' is deeply worrying IMO. For as long as this remains written into policy, criticality (and that's the least of it) is up the creek
Such an important point Mariel . As always, it's overreach - a complete lack of proportion and boundaries. This is not going to end well.

I agree, persistentwoman

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I am not risking suspension for retaliation to your bullying and harassment from day one on this site. Do your worst

Stop lying. Being disagreed with on feminism threads is not "bullying and harassment". We are sometimes on the same threads. I'm not following you and I consider your behaviour to me constantly centring yourself in my use of MN harassment. Grow up.

You apologised for the obvious problem you have with your interactions on this site. Like several others I took it with a truckload of salt. I feel vindicated.

The apology was never to you, so I wouldn't it wasn't several others, just you and your fellow bullies, but if you feel vindicated by some one you don't know on the internet, km pleased for you

No, you started this with popping up every thread you can with your 'I agree ' when someone , usually Mariel , has a dig.

You never actually disagree with me or make any point. You just make comments about 'certain posters' instead of making any actual arguments to me yourself. It's embarrassing.

You and Mariel don't like me. I certainly don't like you. So let's just not interact instead of you boring everyone silly with what did or didn't happen on other threads.

Do you tell your friends their hair looks awful, their dress doesn't suit them or they've put weight on?

Not saying those things doesn't require you to lie.

Saying you have to say "she" when you see a he and know it is a male person is requiring you to lie.

Why on earth should we put the feelings of someone who can't possibly accept that the person before them is a she to the feelings of trans?

Why not? Why do you think trans people's feelings should come before the feelings of people who have difficulty lying, or maybe just feel that they don't want to lie? Or don't feel comfortable or safe having their speech coerced?

Like many other GC people, I may agree to use the wrong sex pronoun as a courtesy to someone if it helps them, as long as they also respect my reality and do not try to bully me into expressing that they are literally the opposite sex to what they are.

If they do, then that's compelled speech and I will resist it. Compelled speech makes me very uncomfortable. Why doesn't that matter?

@allmywhat

Do you tell your friends their hair looks awful, their dress doesn't suit them or they've put weight on?

You can not mention hair, dresses and weight quite easily. (Are you one of those strange people who thinks that's all women talk about?)

It's much harder to completely avoid ever referring to someone in the third person.

No.

It's a point that we regularly 'lie' is go against our self indulgent reality.

So refer to them in the third person. Put your ego down for two seconds and use I

Or, as suggested upthread, avoid them , if your ego is worth what people will feel towards you if you avoid trans people because of your own important beliefs.

I'm scrolling your posts, so I'm not reading anything you have to say, Driveway. Don't bother.

@WindyPudding

Do you tell your friends their hair looks awful, their dress doesn't suit them or they've put weight on?

Not saying those things doesn't require you to lie.

Saying you have to say "she" when you see a he and know it is a male person is requiring you to lie.

Why on earth should we put the feelings of someone who can't possibly accept that the person before them is a she to the feelings of trans?

Why not? Why do you think trans people's feelings should come before the feelings of people who have difficulty lying, or maybe just feel that they don't want to lie? Or don't feel comfortable or safe having their speech coerced?

Like many other GC people, I may agree to use the wrong sex pronoun as a courtesy to someone if it helps them, as long as they also respect my reality and do not try to bully me into expressing that they are literally the opposite sex to what they are.

If they do, then that's compelled speech and I will resist it. Compelled speech makes me very uncomfortable. Why doesn't that matter?

It's not requiring you to lie.

On one hand we consider ourselves intelligent beings then in the next breath we can't possibly say he instead of she .

Nobody is bullying you into doing anything.

They are who they are.

You have a choice not to use it but unis are making the right choice by then having the choice in who they employ.