Pronouns in email signatures - advice and arguments please

[AdultHumanFemale77777]

I work in a medium sized organisation and have influence in decisions around equality and diversity. I am due in a meeting in the next few weeks where we will discuss whether to suggest(/mandate?!) pronouns in email signatures. I would like to do some research and have well reasoned arguments as to why this is a terrible idea. So far I have - I don't fucking want to, it's performative wokeness at best and actively damaging to women. If we cared about trans identifying people that much we'd pay for proper counselling for dysmorphia.
I would be very grateful for any advice or suggestions for points I can bring to this meeting. Conscious of being branded xyz-phobic for wanting to stick up for actual women.

Pronouns in an email signature or on a social media bio are an immediate and huge red flag for me. Time and again it has proved (to me) to be a very accurate indicator or reflection of a very specific focus.

It would be asking employees to express belief in an ideology that the majority of people do not subscribe to. Even when optional, employees could feel pressurised to do this. Inappropriate to indicate belief in any particular ideology in company correspondence. Discrimination concerns re: protected gender critical beliefs.

It's notable that some people are incapable at interrogating the motivations for their own actions. Doing things without being able to say what the reason is.
And then declaring that 'it doesn't matter' that the same thing disadvantages a particular group.

I've seen these types of people suddenly come under scrutiny in the last couple of years as their actions are held up to light - as power imbalances are attempted to be addressed.

@UnkindlyMay

Don’t be a chump, ASugarr. It disadvantages women.

I have a neutral name and it’s useful to be assumed male by the more sexist of my clients. There are a lot of sexist people in the world.

‘Declaring my pronouns’ would disadvantage me. I’ve seen it happen before and I’m not doing it.

How does it disadvantage woman? And how is not putting them there solving that issue? Maybe the issue of sexism in the workplace needs to be actually solved instead of ignored and not pushing for women to break that norm and not allowing women to be proud to be women.

@redglobox

It would be asking employees to express belief in an ideology that the majority of people do not subscribe to. Even when optional, employees could feel pressurised to do this. Inappropriate to indicate belief in any particular ideology in company correspondence. Discrimination concerns re: protected gender critical beliefs.

You think pronouns are an ideology? It's basic English.

UnkindlyMay
It disadvantages women, ASugarr. Why doesn’t that matter to you?

"Because it doesn't"

It’s does make you wonder why some people are so eager to post so often on a Women’s right board if they don’t care about women …

@FeckTheMagicDragon

UnkindlyMay It disadvantages women, ASugarr. Why doesn’t that matter to you?

"Because it doesn't"

It’s does make you wonder why some people are so eager to post so often on a Women’s right board if they don’t care about women …

Pronouns don't change that issue. Challenging sexism does. Meaning standing up as women. Not giving a shit what sexism comes with letting others know you are a woman. If that isn't a feminist then I don't know what is.

I love this "hasn't caused any issues" stuff. O rly? Have you noticed what happens to women who raise "issues"? Maya Forstater? Just to name one. All the hundreds of supportive, but anonymous-because-terrified emails by women to women who dare to speak out?

No issues. Yeah, right.

As DdraigGoch said, you do you. With so little fellow feeling, don't even begin to tell others what to do.

You think pronouns are an ideology? It's basic English.

Can you explain what you mean by saying pronouns are basic English? Do you mean they form part of the English language, as do all words used to express ideologies? You're going to have to be a bit more specific than that!

Not giving a shit what sexism comes with letting others know you are a woman.

I don't understand this sentence. I'm not sure it makes any sense. Is it basic English?

A friendly reminder to everyone, the deletions will start soon...it's as predictable as the tides.

@CardinalLolzy

You think pronouns are an ideology? It's basic English.

Can you explain what you mean by saying pronouns are basic English? Do you mean they form part of the English language, as do all words used to express ideologies? You're going to have to be a bit more specific than that!

I mean you literally just used them in your answer. Pronouns are everywhere. We use them every single day in almost every sentence we make. Including gendered pronojns. Which is why putting a simple little she/her in your emails does no harm.

@ArabellaScott

Yogyakarta principle 6 notes that nobody should be forced to disclose their gender identity.

Will just reiterate this, then...

Disadvantaging women doesn’t matter to you ASugarr. It’s matters to most of the women on this board. Compelled speech in the matter of pronouns use has caused women pain, lost them jobs, silenced them.

You don’t care about women. You said so.

It is performative and woke-signalling - as clearly demonstrated both on this thread and others.

Being 'proud of being a woman' sounds great, especially if we have a useful definition of who these proud women are.

Meanwhile, my email signature will remain:
C. Purpureus
Head of Widget Studies

You need to know that I'm the person to take it up with if you are unhappy about things widget related, or you've got a great idea for something widget-y.

You don't need to know my sex, shoe size, what I had for breakfast or my preferred pronouns/adverbs/gerunds.

@CardinalLolzy

It's notable that some people are incapable at interrogating the motivations for their own actions. Doing things without being able to say what the reason is. And then declaring that 'it doesn't matter' that the same thing disadvantages a particular group.

I've seen these types of people suddenly come under scrutiny in the last couple of years as their actions are held up to light - as power imbalances are attempted to be addressed.

Absolutely. They queue up at the HR door.

Right, then ASugarr - your argument is literally that words that are used frequently cannot cause harm.

Exactly what racists say. I'm afraid I disagree strongly with this vile reasoning.

@CardinalLolzy

Right, then ASugarr - your argument is literally that words that are used frequently cannot cause harm.

Exactly what racists say. I'm afraid I disagree strongly with this vile reasoning.

Don't see how she/her, they/them, he/him are harmful. Not really the same thing as racist terms.

@FeckTheMagicDragon

Disadvantaging women doesn’t matter to you ASugarr. It’s matters to most of the women on this board. Compelled speech in the matter of pronouns use has caused women pain, lost them jobs, silenced them.

You don’t care about women. You said so.

I care about women. However I care about ALL women. That's the difference.

I've joined a new organisation recently where a large proportion of the workforce are of non-uk backgrounds. This is new to me, so their names are often unfamiliar (foreign) and I don't know whether they are male or female. It's not uncommon for me to be emailing one person relaying information that someone else has conveyed to me, and I've managed to cause confusion on a couple of ocassions by making the wrong assumptions about people's gender. I don't personally think it should be mandatory to declare your pronouns, but I do find it very helpful if people do. It's not just about trans rights.

ASUgarr - you said the reason that using the words isn't harmful is because they are used frequently. I disagree that high frequency of usage means that words can't be harmful.

Words have meaning beyond how often they are used.

This is going to be another 1000 posts of gruyere, isn't it? 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's worth noting that this is a rote recital played out many many times and really not worth losing a strike over.

What I would like to say is: "I do not believe that it is up to people to mandate how others see them or talk about them. Once you have demanded that, you then can't know what people actually think, and so it undermines the possibility of real validation."

But for emergencies for oppressive environments I have prepared this line:

"Trans people have mixed views on this. Some find it condescending or mocking. I think that overall it's best not to do something that makes some people so uncomfortable".