Pronouns in email signatures - advice and arguments please

[AdultHumanFemale77777]

I work in a medium sized organisation and have influence in decisions around equality and diversity. I am due in a meeting in the next few weeks where we will discuss whether to suggest(/mandate?!) pronouns in email signatures. I would like to do some research and have well reasoned arguments as to why this is a terrible idea. So far I have - I don't fucking want to, it's performative wokeness at best and actively damaging to women. If we cared about trans identifying people that much we'd pay for proper counselling for dysmorphia.
I would be very grateful for any advice or suggestions for points I can bring to this meeting. Conscious of being branded xyz-phobic for wanting to stick up for actual women.

@ASugarr

It's been helpful when talking to and meeting new people. It's made it easier for young people we speak to feel more comfortable and especially anyone who is transgender (which we have a few collegues and young people we support who are). It hasn't negatively affected the workplace and it's a simple change to make.

I don't understand why your pronouns in an email signature would make any difference to 'talking to and meeting new people'? How would knowing your preferred pronouns actually make any difference to meeting or talking to someone for the first time in a work environment? Presumably nobody is going to be using third person pronouns when they are having a conversation with you? I also don't understand how you having your pronouns in your email signature would make other people feel more comfortable - what have your own preferred pronouns got to do with how anyone else feels, identifies, or wants to be referred as? Just genuinely don't understand . I speak to loads of people via email at work, internally and externally, and sometimes I don't know the sex or gender identity of the person I'm talking to. I don't need to though anyway, why would I need to know that information when I'm emailing someone about work?

It’s a gross invasion of personal freedom to make them mandatory or ‘suggest’ (ie pressure) them. I find it extraordinary any ethical organisation would suggest this. It is absolutely no business of an employer.

As a pp said women perform worse is tasks when they are reminded of their gender beforehand, and as women’s competence at work is rated lower, for female staff reminded everyone they are ‘she’ in every email is not a positive thing.

Hard no.

It is unfair on everyone who doesn't want to declare a gender identity, whether because they don't have one - this will be the majority - or because they do subscribe to the ideology, but aren't comfortable 'outing' themselves at work.

It's no more appropriate than asking people to add their star sign or food allergies. No one needs to know whether someone they're sending an email to even has a gender identity &/or an opinion on other people's use of pronouns to describe them.

It's at best irrelevant & at worst intrusive.

My pronouns are "oi" and "yo"
My name is my own
I do not use a marital title (despite still adoring my husband)
and will not tolerate people who want to categorise me

I work with people across the globe and while we all can often make assumptions about the sex of a person based on their name in print, I don’t need to know if someone is male or female to be able to work with them, and I don’t assume. I try to stay open minded about people’s abilities - which should have nothing to do with any of their protected characteristics.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html%3famp

Just send them this

It disadvantages women, ASugarr. Why doesn’t that matter to you?

Does GDPR allow you to hold this data about everyone?

A few more steps to ask them about.

Are they going to dump this monitoring on HR as an employee relations activity?

Does the existing HR team have the capacity to start creating 100s or 1,000s of new employee relations cases to deal with over email signatures.

Does the management team have buy in to accept the time commitment needed for mangers to independently participate in disciplinaries, appeals and grievance investigations from the employees you have spied on?

Lots to figure out before you kick that project off.

@UnkindlyMay

It disadvantages women, ASugarr. Why doesn’t that matter to you?

Because it doesn't.

It will take up a lot of space on your email, as the full list of pronouns and pronominal adjectives is very long.

• all
• another
• any
• anybody
• anyone
• anything
• as
• aught
• both
• each
• each other
• either
• enough
• everybody
• everyone
• everything
• few
• he
• her
• hers
• herself
• him
• himself
• his
• I
• idem
• it
• its
• itself
• many
• me
• mine
• most
• my
• myself
• naught
• neither
• no one
• nobody
• none
• nothing
• nought
• one
• one another
• other
• others
• ought
• our
• ours
• ourself
• ourselves
• several
• she
• some
• somebody
• someone
• something
• somewhat
• such
• suchlike
• that
• thee
• their
• theirs
• theirself
• theirselves
• them
• themself
• themselves
• there
• these
• they
• thine
• this
• those
• thou
• thy
• thyself
• us
• we
• what
• whatever
• whatnot
• whatsoever
• whence
• where
• whereby
• wherefrom
• wherein
• whereinto
• whereof
• whereon
• wherever
• wheresoever
• whereto
• whereunto
• wherewith
• wherewithal
• whether
• which
• whichever
• whichsoever
• who
• whoever
• whom
• whomever
• whomso
• whomsoever
• whose
• whosever
• whosesoever
• whoso
• whosoever
• ye
• yon
• yonder
• you
• your
• yours
• yourself
• yourselves

To be clear there's nothing wrong with telling people your pronouns but to require everyone to declare them seems intrusive and unnecessary.

"Why doesn't that matter to you?"
"Because it doesn't"

Are my 5 year olds on here?!

Look, even if you are all for gender ideology and everyone choosing their own unique and personalised pronouns, you just CANNOT make it compulsory. It's an invasion of privacy, probably Data Protection dodgy, it's rude, invasive, pushy and bullying. Make it clear that if people want to share their pronouns, that's fine - I cannot see making it compulsory as anything other than exposing staff to sexism and potential discrimination.

@ASugarr

I have used pronouns on my emails and zoom calls for over a year and it's been helpful and hasn't caused any issues.

Can I ask why you decided this and in what way it's useful? Really interested to understand

@ArabellaScott

Look, even if you are all for gender ideology and everyone choosing their own unique and personalised pronouns, you just CANNOT make it compulsory. It's an invasion of privacy, probably Data Protection dodgy, it's rude, invasive, pushy and bullying. Make it clear that if people want to share their pronouns, that's fine - I cannot see making it compulsory as anything other than exposing staff to sexism and potential discrimination.

You realize it's not just for transgender people to be more comfortable and all right? Anyone who doesn't express themselves through stereotypical gender expression it helps. For example, a masculine woman. There are many times in which we use gendered pronouns and it's respectful to know someone else's. It isn't always when they are out of the room either. Many people forget that we use gendered pronouns when those people are around too. It actually is just a nice, simple way of showing respect and making life easier for everyone.

Because I wanted to. It's useful due to the nature of my job and it's just a very simple change.

It is about as useful as taking a doormat to work with me.

When people ask why you did something, they are asking why you wanted to do it, why you chose to do it.

@CardinalLolzy

When people ask why you did something, they are asking why you wanted to do it, why you chose to do it.

Because it's just a simple thing to do. Don't see the issue in not doing it.

There's thread upon thread of women describing how it makes them feel marginalised, targeted, uncomfortable, pressurised, angry, triggered, etc.

So how exactly is that making life easier for 'everyone'? Everone except the women here, talking to you? How come you don't recognise our wants, needs, wishes, feelings?

@I0NA

It will take up a lot of space on your email, as the full list of pronouns and pronominal adjectives is very long.

• all
• another
• any
• anybody
• anyone
• anything
• as
• aught
• both
• each
• each other
• either
• enough
• everybody
• everyone
• everything
• few
• he
• her
• hers
• herself
• him
• himself
• his
• I
• idem
• it
• its
• itself
• many
• me
• mine
• most
• my
• myself
• naught
• neither
• no one
• nobody
• none
• nothing
• nought
• one
• one another
• other
• others
• ought
• our
• ours
• ourself
• ourselves
• several
• she
• some
• somebody
• someone
• something
• somewhat
• such
• suchlike
• that
• thee
• their
• theirs
• theirself
• theirselves
• them
• themself
• themselves
• there
• these
• they
• thine
• this
• those
• thou
• thy
• thyself
• us
• we
• what
• whatever
• whatnot
• whatsoever
• whence
• where
• whereby
• wherefrom
• wherein
• whereinto
• whereof
• whereon
• wherever
• wheresoever
• whereto
• whereunto
• wherewith
• wherewithal
• whether
• which
• whichever
• whichsoever
• who
• whoever
• whom
• whomever
• whomso
• whomsoever
• whose
• whosever
• whosesoever
• whoso
• whosoever
• ye
• yon
• yonder
• you
• your
• yours
• yourself
• yourselves

Also plenty of transpeople who have specifically asked people not to compel pronouns. You've not read those requests, I take it? Or do they not matter, either?

Don’t be a chump, ASugarr. It disadvantages women.

I have a neutral name and it’s useful to be assumed male by the more sexist of my clients. There are a lot of sexist people in the world.

‘Declaring my pronouns’ would disadvantage me. I’ve seen it happen before and I’m not doing it.

@MrsRockAndRoll

That is an under rated post. It's a 10 from me.