Carers allowed to help clients visit sex workers

[StealthPolarBear]

words fail me

Christ alive.

Unbelievable, isn't it?
There can be no hope of equality while women can be bought and sold.

Fucking hell.

Can the carer refuse if they want to?

I just read that, utterly disgusting

I think the issue is that's it's not illegal to pay for sex. Thus the debate has to be about what is in the best interest of the patient. If we had the Nordic model then guess the judgement would have gone the other way

This will solidify the 'women as commodities' assumption many people have.
And will be countered by "but women could do it too if they wanted to"

This will solidify the 'women as commodities' assumption many people have.
And will be countered by "but women could do it too if they wanted to

It's not, its countered by "able bodied men can do it if they want". I hate this ruling, hate it. It's utterly correct though. The issue is the prostitution laws not the CoP ruling.

Does this mean that potentially a carer would have to go this or else they might lose their job?

Yes that too but I'm sure someone will also point out the gender neutral language and how it's just as likely to be a woman paying for a man (yeah right)
Good question about carers' rights to decline. I honestly don't know.

@TinselAngel

I suppose so, not sure. Depends on if the objection is covered by the EA I suppose. I suppose it would be treated no differently than a people of certain religions objecting to taking somebody to the pub or cooking certain foods.

What men want men get, nothing has changed.

How odd that these stories and how there is a right to sex(including buying it) and it would be discriminatory to prevent it are always... about men.

Right back to men having needs that matter more than women’s lives, aren’t we.

Some relevant tweets/discussion/quotations on this page of Nordic Model thread (need to scroll up a little from this one):

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4222357-Nordic-model-demand-in-Daily-Mail?msgid=106917685#106917685

I can only say that I would hand in my notice if I was ordered to do this, too. It is forcing carers, predominantly women, to become complicit in prostituting women for men’s needs. Nothing doing.

Yuk. Women for sex are not a human right. Sickening

I wonder about
'he knew he would probably never find a girlfriend'
and
'he asked his carers if they could find him a sex worker'
.....if he is so disabled how has he reached and expressed these ideas without input from the carers?
why would he probably never find a girlfriend? wouldn't it be better for him if the carers put effort into helping him form and sustain relationships that might become sexual ones? Help him understand what a mutual and respectful sexual relationship is?
I don't believe the notion of 'a sex worker' is one that would spontaneously occur to someone with an intellectual disability, so who gave him that idea and why?

I can only say that I would hand in my notice if I was ordered to do this, too. It is forcing carers, predominantly women, to become complicit in prostituting women for men’s needs. Nothing doing

I'm not sure what I would do.

I believe passionately and absolutely that prostitution should not be legalised, normalised, encouraged in any way shape or form.

I also believe passionately that the state should not be in the business of forcing people with disabilities to live to a higher moral standard than the rest of the country just because they are not able to physically do immoral things without assistance.

I don't believe the notion of 'a sex worker' is one that would spontaneously occur to someone with an intellectual disability, so who gave him that idea and why?

The extracts in the above link as well as the full judgment might be useful.

I don't believe the notion of 'a sex worker' is one that would spontaneously occur to someone with an intellectual disability, so who gave him that idea and why?

Why don't you believe that?

Also he likely has contact with friends and relatives as well as carers.

@Glasstabletop

I can only say that I would hand in my notice if I was ordered to do this, too. It is forcing carers, predominantly women, to become complicit in prostituting women for men’s needs. Nothing doing

I'm not sure what I would do.

I believe passionately and absolutely that prostitution should not be legalised, normalised, encouraged in any way shape or form.

I also believe passionately that the state should not be in the business of forcing people with disabilities to live to a higher moral standard than the rest of the country just because they are not able to physically do immoral things without assistance.

So should the carers also go and source him some pot?

So should the carers also go and source him some pot?

That's illegal not immoral.

Prostitution is immoral not illegal.

This is the problem.

I can only say that I would hand in my notice if I was ordered to do this, too. It is forcing carers, predominantly women, to become complicit in prostituting women for men’s needs. Nothing doing.

There are loads of carer jobs out there, loads. Anyone who's a carer who doesn't want to do this should just refuse and get another job. I'd imagine most carers would refuse. It's sort of the definition of the role that most carers care about people - so unless you think women aren't people I can't see how this exploitation would sit well .

The Court of Protection judgment goes into considerable discussion and detail about carers, what constitutes exploitation, illegality, a preference for registered sex services etc.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/A-Local-Authority-v-C-and-ors-judgment.pdf

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]The Court of Protection judgment goes into considerable discussion and detail about carers, what constitutes exploitation, illegality, a preference for registered sex services etc.

www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/A-Local-Authority-v-C-and-ors-judgment.pdf[/quote]
It reminds me of the GRA. Pieces of legislation that just really poorly thought out (Both the MCA and the SOA) that courts have to make sense of.

On the plus side maybe this will prompt a review a bring us closer to the Nordic model?