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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Gender at birth'

52 replies

Chewbecca · 29/04/2021 13:21

The above is requested on a form to book a Bupa medical appointment.

It's inaccurate isn't it? Gender isn't assigned at birth and it's simply the sex they need to know, surely?

OP posts:
Skyliner001 · 29/04/2021 13:24

Sigh.

FightingTheFoo · 29/04/2021 13:26

Put "unknown" or "unassigned" and see how they like them apples

adviceseekingnamechanger · 29/04/2021 13:27

Yes it is inaccurate. Babies don't have a gender but they do have a sex. Challenge it.

And ignore Skyliner; they're just here to complain about how transphobic everything is.

Chewbecca · 29/04/2021 13:30

You can't, only two options.

Why sigh?

Is it worth emailing them do you reckon?

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 29/04/2021 13:32

Can you leave it blank? Let them ask you in person and you can discuss the issue with the form with a human being.

jellyfrizz · 29/04/2021 13:32

It's worth sending them an email. I'm sure they want to get accurate information so they need to know if they are confusing people.

Beowulfa · 29/04/2021 13:34

@Chewbecca

You can't, only two options.

Why sigh?

Is it worth emailing them do you reckon?

Yes, it's important to know that healthcare providers are aware of the difference in provision of specific medical treatment to the two sexes. Diseases aren't interested in your pronouns.
Nonmaquillee · 29/04/2021 13:35

This drives me nuts. Of course it's incorrect. Can you challenge it?

I'm a middle aged adult woman and don't have a gender, and never will have, so God knows how a newborn is supposed to have one.....

Kit19 · 29/04/2021 13:35

definitely worth sending an email. We need to challenge the replacement of sex with gender (when organisations really mean sex) every time it happens, slowly the message will permeate through....

Chewbecca · 29/04/2021 13:46

Thanks for the confirmation. Email sent and I borrowed this phrase which was exactly the point

healthcare providers are aware of the difference in provision of specific medical treatment to the two sexes

OP posts:
Chewbecca · 29/04/2021 13:48

You can't progress the form if you leave it blank.
It's for a health assessment so they do actually need to know as I will be having a smear and a mammogram but no prostate check so my sex is definitely relevant to the booking.

OP posts:
andyoldlabour · 29/04/2021 13:56

Sex observed at birth, or possibly before via a scan.

Imreaaaaady · 29/04/2021 14:07

It's obvious what is meant.

NancyDrawed · 29/04/2021 14:13

@Imreaaaaady

It's obvious what is meant.
If they mean what sex were you born, why not just ask that question?
Chewbecca · 29/04/2021 14:15

Yes, of course it is obvious. But the language is inaccurate and surely noone wants that?

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 29/04/2021 14:21

My sex was observed to be female at birth.

I lost the genetic lottery.

My gender was assigned as feminine - my gender role was to serve men.

I've been fighting it ever since.

My fight is not hailed with pretty flags and calls of 'brave'. Instead, I am called cunt, bitch, slag, a man-hater and ballbreaker.

There are no Twitter armies defending me.

R0wantrees · 29/04/2021 14:23

BUPA should be very aware of the risks to patients if they confuse sex and gender/gender identity.

An individual's sex is observed and recorded at birth, it is often known before birth.

Anne Harper-Wright's article concerns the NHS but it is to be expected that BUPA has same risk awareness and standards:
(extract)
"The NHS understands the clear distinction between sex and gender.

The NHS, in addition to treating patients by biological sex, are legally bound to respect a person’s ‘gender identity’ too, should they declare one. Biological sex remains immutable, and important. Medical treatment of the sexes differs between males and females. Male and female anatomy, genetics, reproductive organs, diseases, response to drugs are critically different. To overwrite a patient’s biological sex in a medical record with their gender identity would be dangerous. The NHS was so concerned about inadvertent confusion between the two concepts that it took careful action to ensure it could keep a record of both.

The NHS Sex and Gender Standards
In 2005, shortly after the Gender Recognition Act was made law, an NHS exercise was commenced to standardise patient information and data within the various IT systems across the NHS. Within this exercise a suite of documentation was created, dedicated to designing a system architecture that could attempt to cope with the challenges specific to using BOTH sex AND gender as data.
Because the consequences of an NHS mix up between sex and gender was recognised as dire. And this risk was noted in several NHS documents, produced by the Microsoft Health Common User Interface team. The following quotes link to the NHS documents for public viewing.
“The term ‘Gender’ is now considered too ambiguous to be desirable or safe”
“Users may confuse the terms current gender and sex, or assume that they are synonymous”
“It is therefore desirable to use the two distinct terms ‘Sex’ and ‘Current Gender’ “
“The Current Gender input controls are used to record the gender, according to how a patient currently describes themselves, whereas the Sex input controls records their phenotypic sex”
~NHS Sex and Current Gender Input and Display User Interface Design Guidance

The NHS went to a lot of trouble and expense designing a database to hold our medical records that wouldn’t mix up our sex with our ‘gender identity’ if we professed to have one. The NHS CANNOT ignore sex, even if the law says gender identity trumps it. And the design guidance is very clear: capture ‘gender feelings’ if you must, but the NHS categorically must record SEX separately, or people will get hurt. Do not overwrite physical reality with feelings on medical records.
The NHS is very clear when sex means sex, and when gender means something entirely different. They have an entire suite of published “Sex and Gender” Information Standards which makes the distinction between the two concepts crystal clear."

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

MarshaBradyo · 29/04/2021 14:24

Terrible

Sex

Imreaaaaady · 29/04/2021 18:11

@Chewbecca

Yes, of course it is obvious. But the language is inaccurate and surely noone wants that?
I don't care tbh. I have enough brain cells to know what they mean. Can't be bothered to get worked up about this for the sake of it.
334bu · 29/04/2021 18:21

I don't care tbh. I have enough brain cells to know what they mean. Can't be bothered to get worked up about this for the sake of it.

In Scotland they replaced gender for sex in the Forensic Medical Services Bill when describing the rights of rape victims to request a same sex medical examiner. Thanks to Johann Lamont's amendment and a public outcry , this was changed to sex, despite the Greens and Lib Dems voting against. It was made clear in Parliament that gender and sex no longer mean the same thing.

LordEmsworth · 29/04/2021 18:29

Ah OP, I saw your title and thought "that happened to me recently, where was it" and yes it was Bupa!

I meant to contact them but forgot, you have prompted me. It's a medical FFS, there are ACTUAL DOCTORS working there...

GreyhoundG1rl · 29/04/2021 18:37

@Imreaaaaady

It's obvious what is meant.
So why not just bloody say it? This stuff matters.
GreyhoundG1rl · 29/04/2021 18:38

I don't care tbh. I have enough brain cells to know what they mean. Can't be bothered to get worked up about this for the sake of it.
That's nice. So don't get worked up about others getting worked up, ok?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 29/04/2021 18:57

metro.co.uk/2019/05/20/pregnant-transgender-mans-baby-died-because-nurse-didnt-realize-he-was-in-labor-9613972/

Real life consequences of confusion over sex and gender.

GreyhoundG1rl · 29/04/2021 19:00

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Shock He was rightly classified as a man Not on a fucking maternity ward Confused
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