Throwing women's sport under the bus

[andyoldlabour]

Former US soccer player sees no problem in allowing male bodied people competing in women's sport. Lori Lindsey says that it would help their mental health, and that anyone who opposes this is a white supremacist.

dailycaller.com/2021/04/24/former-us-soccer-player-lori-lindsey-banning-transgender-athletes-upholds-white-supremacy/?

@Iootraw1

The photo taken of Fallon Fox the boxer punching the lights out of a woman competition made me feel physically repulsed. That wasn’t a sport photo I saw right there , woman abuser came to mind. It’s sickening to believe that women are expected to endure this. In fact why of earth would any female boxer agree to a fight with someone who is essentially (and I make NO apology here) a Man? I feel nothing but anger when I see a transwoman on the podium. Go and compete against men why don’t you? Or form your own leagues, and strike out your OWN ground in securing your rights. But don’t dare stamp all over women and everything they have achieved thus far.

It was the language used afterwards and almost gloating attitude. I also believe that the boxer who was essentially invalided out of the sport did not know the history of fox?

@Sophoclesthefox

Can we give willit the benefit of the doubt?

I am also a former player and have played mixed sex scratch games at rugby tournaments - for fun, not seriously. The men were expected to hold back.

And she’s saying things that women players are saying, and apparently genuinely believe.

I know we get a lot of drive by scoldings, and that causes tension, but Like any good ref, I want to see a good clean game

...for fun, not seriously. The men were expected to hold back.

Exactly, that's the point.

Like you, my DH used to play rugby (although he still does turn out occasionally for the veteran's team when they play).

He's also played in a couple of mixed sex games and, exactly as you say, it was just a bit of fun and the men held back from going full in.

However, willit seemed to be implying that she was playing in full on competitive games which I really don't believe at all.

I wonder if she is just naive and not aware that most male rugby players are going to hold back to a certain extent in that sort of situation or is she deliberately trying to obfuscate things?

@NotBadConsidering

Also a bit crazy I can't come in and give my personal experience/opinion without everyone telling me I'm wrong

You’re not wrong about your own experience. You’re wrong in thinking you’re own experience should be enough to form a policy that encompasses the opinions of all the other women and girls who think differently.

You have had no issues. Great! That’s great for you, although if you were to play full contact rugby against males for long enough it would only be a matter of time before something went wrong.

But this is about making it fair and safe for everyone. You saying “I’ve never had an issue” is the same as “my granny smoked 40 ciggies a day and lived to 102”.

Excellent points

I was reading an article today about Caster Semenya who took up running because they got kicked out of the girls' football team for being 'too rough'.

On another thread, someone posted the vast gulf between teenage boys' lung capacity compared to adult women.

Male bodies and female bodies are different. Identity doesn't change that.

this could be interesting.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4229890-Lesbian-Visibility-Week-Inclusion-in-Sport-panel-event-at-3-30pm-today-Powered-by-DIVA-Stonewall

Just saw this on Twitter
USATF records for 8 and under. Male advantage appears to be present way before puberty.

Quite... I used to throw the javelin and do long jump for my school. I wasn’t half bad!

DS could match my bests with ease even when he was much younger.

Another important distinction between the sexes.
www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/27/teenage-girls-face-almost-double-the-concussion-risk-of-boys-playing-football?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

This is really interesting.

"Intriguingly, whereas the most common cause of concussions in male athletes was contact with another player, in female athletes the most common mechanism was contact with an object, such as a ball."

It is a widespread belief that you can't get seriously hurt from being hit in the head/face by the ball. You're taught to just shake it off and carry on.

And this from same research

'Our findings add to research showing that female athletes are at increased concussion risk compared to male athletes, and highlight the importance of sex-specific research in this field.'

According to the NHS, signs of a concussion usually appear within a few minutes or hours of a head injury, but occasionally they may not be obvious for a few days.

Worryingly, if undiagnosed, concussion can cause life-long problems for youngsters.

The worst concussions I've seen from women's football - including one that was life changing - didn't manifest until at least a day after. One of the players was convinced she was fine to continue playing, which is common.

I’ve had a concussion once (not football related) and I didn’t realise until the next day either. It’s awful.

@334bu

Just saw this on Twitter USATF records for 8 and under. Male advantage appears to be present way before puberty.

That's pretty revealing isn't it. We're usually told there's no difference pre-puberty (and indeed these days, told there's no difference POST puberty after a touch of hormone therapy

Speaking of concussion. I just read this article on American Football.

Zac Easter: He left his brain behind to save others from his fate www.bbc.co.uk/sport/american-football/56894868

In Love, Zac Forgrave details how his post mortem diagnosed chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), the neurodegenerative condition linked to repeated blows to the head and/or concussion.

This bit is important too.

CTE tends to develop over several years, with symptoms similar to Alzheimer's disease, and can so far only be detected after death.

This young man started to experience it at 11 years old!!

Now combine this with the Swansea Uni study on female’s brain injury in rugby and I really cannot believe RFU can ignore the dangers to women and girls.

I know American football is a different code of football to rugby but the brain damage this child suffered could well be similar (if not the same) to the concussive damage and degenerative diseases suffered as a result to rugby union (and league) and to headers in football.

The point is knowing the risks to males, and the increased risk for females, why would ANY person advocate for increasing that risk for females.

is it just not wanting to believe the science?

Is it like bike helmets? You don’t believe you need one, until you do?

Is there a degree of ‘it was ok for me that one, two, x, times I played against a male, so if that one time another female suffers a significant tackle/collision that is just par for the course’ right? They knew that Rugby is a collision sport?

Or are those agreeing enjoying the benefits of having the male on their team and are not actually in danger at all? But downplay the risk to the women on the other side?

@willithappen

1. Yes I am female.

1. Height and weight because that's what RFU have proposed for allowing trans women to play. So totally relevant actually.
2. The differences - I am 9 stone, I can play and tackle and women almost double my weight on the other team. I am grassroots - I can walk into the pitch doing absolutely zero training and end up playing against an international player (which has happened - granted I personally hadn't walked on with zero training but we had players on the team where it was their first game).
3. We have 'unofficially' played with mixed men and women - like I say we don't care 😂 it's funny to me that most people who are so up in arms actually have zero involvement. (Not saying that everyone does before people jump down my throat). A lot of the girls on my team can tackle the guys harder than any other guy could :)
4. Personal experience - played with and against a couple of trans women and no issues.

Keep throwing demands for me to prove with 'science' all you like but I think I will stick to my own experience.
Also a bit crazy I can't come in and give my personal experience/opinion without everyone telling me I'm wrong 😂

I'm a retired kickboxer. I used to train and spar with the men because I would have hurt the majority of the women who trained at my gym for fun.

On the first day a new guy with low fitness, musculature and no experience started, I paired up with him, as he was vastly outpowered by the men and a fair bit shorter at five foot one.

He'd just done two hours of cardio and flexibility work and was knackered, whereas I was fresh as a daisy.

The first hit he landed cracked my shin, the second left me looking like Rocky.

The men, most of whom were lighter than me, had held back all the time. But this eight stone guy with arms and legs like pipe cleaners hurt me despite all my muscle, fitness and experience. Because he didn't hold back.

That's why it's dangerous. You cannot rely on somebody to hold back.

As I understand it, Serena Williams would be defeated by a non-seeded male player quite easily.

I believe headers will eventually be banned in football. The game will function perfectly well without them. We're trained that they won't hurt if you do them properly but that's simply not true and many women at the lower levels avoid them, despite the coach's encouragement.
When you head a really hard ball from a goal kick or a corner, you experience a moment or two blinking out - like the computer is resetting. I've retired from the more competitive side, but I'll only head softer balls e.g. rebounds or throw-ins and I won't do it in training any more. My brain has done enough.