TW in sport - Help wanted

[Tabasco007]

Morning All, name changed here, (not that I am big poster). I need some help in finding some information on TW in sport. My housemate is male, early 50's, he knows I don't believe that TWAW and that people can't change sex, and to be fair, I don't think he does either, but I find it really hard to explain it all to him. I have mentioned most of my concerns, but he seems to always bring up sport and it has generally come up after a few drinks - what I find is, he get a bit shouty and asks me to tell him the exact numbers, figures, evidence, which I then struggle to do. Personally I feel if one TW takes a medal off a women then its not fair, but he seems to be implying that if it not happening a lot, then why am I going on about it. He also works for a news desk and says it never comes up there. when we did get heated about this topic a month or so ago, he basically implied that women wanted equality, so we should just suck it up. Anyway, can someone direct me to clear links on TW in sport, I know I have seen stuff online, but can't seem to locate it now. Also was it british cycling that have now changed their policy to included anyone that says they are a women, will levels of testosterone come in to it? Thanks for your help.

maybe ask him to give you the numbers and figures?

There are hundreds of women and girls who have been disadvantaged by just a handful of males in their sport. These women and girls matter. A thread of mine with their names and how they lost out:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4175263--No-Trans-Olympian-List-of-women-and-girls-disadvantaged-in-sport-resource-thread

Here are some links that could help.

Adding the USAF study here for people to read.

bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329

Timothy A Roberts, Joshua Smalley, Dale Ahrendt

Effect of gender affirming hormones on athletic performance in transwomen and transmen: implications for sporting organisations and legislators

Summary The 15–31% athletic advantage that transwomen displayed over their female counterparts prior to starting gender affirming hormones declined with feminising therapy. However, transwomen still had a 9% faster mean run speed after the 1 year period of testosterone suppression that is recommended by World Athletics for inclusion in women’s events.

It is interesting reading as it also leaves the suggestion that even after 3 years advantage still exists.

And Sean Ingle’s take on it.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/07/study-suggests-ioc-adjustment-period-for-trans-women-may-be-too-short

He’s gaslighting you.
Here’s a link to Fair Play for Women, with a section about sport.

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/sports-campaign/

Don’t forget that in the US, boys who declare they are now trans girls are winning sports scholarships to colleges - which are very financially lucrative, by beating girls in sports where they were not able to beat boys.

Got to run but if you search for sports threads in here there are a load of links to the studies carried out and all the evidence

However if he’s already being shouty and bullying about it, I suspect he’s not interested in the actual evidence

This twitter thread is good.

twitter.com/fondofbeetles/status/1368174222992961547?s=21

The boys vs women website is handy as well, as it demonstrates that teenage boys with all the advantages of going through male puberty (muscle mass, skeletal structure, lung capacity etc) will beat women Olympians.

boysvswomen.com/#/

fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/sports-campaign/ for a good overview or, if he is serious about wanting to know (I suspect he isn't) link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

TBH I don't think it's worth doing more. If he reads these and still insists that it's fine for men to play in women's sports then he's obviously a sexist git. You could also explain that there's a difference between equality and equity - if you google it there are a load of idiot-proof diagrams that make it clear.

Didn’t British (or English?) gymnastics rule that all children could basically compete together (which would imply then all also using same facilities for changing and washing) but those with... ummm... ‘bulges’ could wear shorts.

This woke up a wokey in-law as it happened around the time his little girl took up gymnastic. Papa bear did not like it.

I have nothing to add, other than he's a dick. Don't put up with his shouting, don't get drunk with him.

Wrong thread? Or an interesting plot twist?

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Wrong thread? Or an interesting plot twist?

Was that to me?

Just advice re: OP's post.

Oh god I was on the wrong thread! 😂

He also works for a news desk and says it never comes up there.

Women should be demanding to know why men on newsdesks have not been properly investigating this scandal in women's sport.

I would forward him a copy of the transcript from Dr Emma Hilton's speech two years ago.

A Woman's Place is on the Podium: Emma Hilton (10 July 2019)

"Dr Emma Hilton is a developmental biologist and University Lecturer. She has published more than twenty manuscripts on developmental biology and genetics and was named Outstanding Young Investigator by the European Society of Human Genetics, for her research.

She spends her days picking through mammalian reproductive systems, and in her leisure time she is a marathon runner, weightlifter and netballer. A strong advocate for women and girls, Emma tweets as @FondofBeetles. "

A transcript of this speech is available here: fairplayforwomen.com/emma_hilton/

If he means 'equality' as in no separate female category, that's a perfectly good argument- I don't agree but he could make that argument and never see any women's sport except very occasional distance runners and swimmers, plus the equipment sports (shooting, equestrian, motor). Equity is when we have different categories to improve competition, as in weight classes for boxing. We have female categories because male bodies are significantly different from female ones. It's really not complicated or emotional. Numbers don't really matter, who wins doesn't really matter. There are lots of recreational sport events where it doesn't matter either and whoever rocks up plays - this is different from competitive sport, where women's events are for females.

Show him a picture of the New Zealand weight lifter who transitioned when they were 30 something and won a medal in the Commonwealth.

But basically what this is about is he just wants to have power over you. He is not your friend.

@FFSFFSFFS

Show him a picture of the New Zealand weight lifter who transitioned when they were 30 something and won a medal in the Commonwealth.

But basically what this is about is he just wants to have power over you. He is not your friend.

Laurel Hubbard?

www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/120029186/2020-tokyo-olympics-committee-has-bowed-to-pressure-to-include-trans-weight-lifter-in-womens-category

I showed that to a sports coach last week. He asked if it was real.

This is the photo. Feagaiga Stowers was 18 in this photo. She grew up poor, in foster care and was a victim of abuse as a child. This was her home games, in Samoa, where she was the flag bearer. Ask him, as a wokey blokey, if he thinks it’s fair that Stowers was beaten by a middle aged male from New Zealand whose family is worth millions.

Yes that's right. Hubbard. So stunning and brave.

This is a list of some of the transwomen in women's sports. savewomenssports.com/males-in-female-sports-1 There will be many more at a lower level eg the person who folds women like deck chairs in rugby.

Hubbard is not 30. Hubbard is 40 something. Stowers was 18 at the time. A 40 something year old privileged male beat an 18 year old woman of colour at weightlifting in her own country.

Progress, apparently.

twitter.com/Scienceofsport

Ross Tucker has been doing a lot of research into this. It's completely scientific and sound. Very interesting. you can see his reports/articles/comments etc on his twitter.
Sharron Davies is another good person to follow on twitter. she tweets a lot of interesting science-based stuff.

Your friend's: 'you want equality, get on with it,' comment though suggests to me there might be something else going on there and he may not want to listen

@NotBadConsidering

This is the photo. Feagaiga Stowers was 18 in this photo. She grew up poor, in foster care and was a victim of abuse as a child. This was her home games, in Samoa, where she was the flag bearer. Ask him, as a wokey blokey, if he thinks it’s fair that Stowers was beaten by a middle aged male from New Zealand whose family is worth millions.

yes

(I meant, yes, good question obviously, not yes it's fair)