Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Confused - has this paedophile been sent to a women’s prison?

41 replies

UggerlyMummy · 22/04/2021 20:38

This article uses female pronouns for the offender in question but doesn’t actually refer to them anywhere as female or as a woman. It says she was “going through the process of gender reassignment and was terrified of going to a male prison”. But doesn’t say whether they were sent to a women’s prison or to a men’s one?

Sorry, I know this subject has been discussed over and over again so my posting about it is fairly pointless. I guess I just needed to share my feelings about it, having just read this on my local news site.

It just feels weird and upsetting that this crime may be recorded as being perpetrated by a woman. And that the offender may be in a women’s jail although that’s not been made clear.

OP posts:
OP posts:
wonderstuff · 22/04/2021 20:46

My understanding is that people are assessed individually for risk before it's decided where to send them, sounds like their barrister was trying to use their gender identity to avoid a prison sentence but failed. I'm not sure what information is being made public about trans women in prison.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/04/2021 20:52

Well, that will be another female crime and will further muddy the waters for any analysis, financial, legal or sociological.

The thought that a man who attempts sexual assault of a minor being sent to the women's estate because he is scared of what men will do is about as ludicrous as it is possible to get. Until you realise it is being used multiple times in similar cases in law courts across the UK.

And the newspaper has no choice but to report this using the pronouns the court too were obliged to accept.

Pretty fucked up isn't it?

Wtfdidwedo · 22/04/2021 20:54

Yeah definitely looks like a Jessica doesn't he?

Datun · 22/04/2021 20:58

That is a male. They may be terrified of going to a male prison, but no more terrified than anyone else, I should imagine. But certainly should never, ever be going to a female one.

Ffs. This is absolute insanity.

NiceGerbil · 22/04/2021 21:10

'"When people behind the profile arrived they saw a person dressed as a male peering through a hedge," said Ms McCarthy.'

????!!!!????

'They told Smith they were looking for a female paedophile. Smith tried but failed to talk her way out of the situation and police were called.'

That seems odd- the hunter people don't know about people not being who they say they are online?! Come off it. That whole bit of the story is missing some stuff I think.

Really weird reporting. Without the pic you'd think it was a female transitioning.

And the story- groomed a 12yo?! Jesus. Really glad it was a prison sentence.

NiceGerbil · 22/04/2021 21:15

Who knows what prison they will go to.

I find it interesting that in Scotland wokesville - their most dangerous prisoner is a transwoman and is not in a female prison.

Yet they say transwomen are women. Do they really believe that or not?

If they did then the super high risk person would obviously be in a women's prison.

They aren't so... TWAW except when they aren't? So if that's the case, and they don't really believe it, why do they keep saying it and changing laws etc.

This mealy mouthed contradictory behaviour is everywhere.

Even the wokest of woke orgs and media outlets still use man woman to mean sex when it suits them.

Hypocritical, callous areseholes the lot of them.

WarOnWomen · 22/04/2021 21:15

So did Jessica transition after the arrest?

Wtfdidwedo · 22/04/2021 21:19

I'm 99% certain he will be in a men's prison by the way. I have friends in that industry and all the paedophiles they've been aware of have definitely gone into men's vulnerable prisoner wings/prisons.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 22/04/2021 22:41

@Wtfdidwedo

I'm 99% certain he will be in a men's prison by the way. I have friends in that industry and all the paedophiles they've been aware of have definitely gone into men's vulnerable prisoner wings/prisons.
Karen White…sexually assaulted two women while on remand at New Hall prison in Wakefield in 2017. [Karen White] who…now identifies as a woman, was described by a judge as a "predator" who was a danger to women and children.

New Hall is a closed female local prison which holds all categories of adult female prisoners…There is a mother & baby unit

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_New_Hall

I don't know what happened but Richard Garside was concerned that post-sentencing for the New Hall attacks, White might be allocated to the female estate again:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3392187-Could-Karen-White-Be-Transferred-Back-to-a-Womens-Prison-Yes

NiceGerbil · 22/04/2021 23:24

Mother and baby units I think are away from the rest of the prison... ?

As a paedophile who has groomed younger girls then he would presumably be seen as less of a risk than someone who had raped women, and rapists have been incarcerated with women.

So I'm not sure on what basis there's confidence about going to a male prison.

ArabellaScott · 22/04/2021 23:30

@wonderstuff

My understanding is that people are assessed individually for risk before it's decided where to send them, sounds like their barrister was trying to use their gender identity to avoid a prison sentence but failed. I'm not sure what information is being made public about trans women in prison.
From what I remember of the JR, it's the opposite way around. Prisoners are sent to the estate according to their self declared gender, and then assessed.
yourhairiswinterfire · 22/04/2021 23:36

From what I remember of the JR

I wonder when we'll hear the results of that. I think the judge wanted the stats from the MoJ by mid March, so could be soon?

I'm really anxious about it. Think I'll be physically sick if it fails.

ArabellaScott · 22/04/2021 23:40

I just went and had a squizz at KPSS website to see if I could find the definitive answer to whether people are assessed before sending to prison according to gender - didn't see any sign of JR news, but surely it will be soon?

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 00:13

If there's a GRC then prison of acquired gender (but I don't think any trans men have ever been put in a male prison, for safety... That info may be out of date).

If not it seems as with a lot of this stuff, it's unclear.

Certainly police and courts seem to work on self ID.

Sex offenders including rapists who don't have a GRC have been incarcerated with women and obviously they're a risk.

Also there have been a few people in women's prisons who were transferred to male after doing things or behaving in ways that triggered it. They were in the women's though and weren't moved until stuff happened.

So I don't understand the confidence that this offender won't go to a female prison. The fact that their lawyer stated they are transitioning and scared of male prison indicates that's what they will be looking for.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 00:16

It's all very opaque.

EG the FOI to England police forces. The ones who responded said they recorded on the basis of self declared gender, but none had any records of when they started doing that or why.

It's a massive change and yet. Nope. No records no discussion it just quietly got changed (which thinking about it must have involved training a lot of police officers) and no one knows why when or anything.

The training point I only just thought of. How was this change rolled out and do quietly in each force? And there's no records at all??!!

Wtfdidwedo · 23/04/2021 07:25

My info is just anecdotal sorry, I know a lot of prison/probation staff through work and the approximately ten MTF transgender prisoners I'm aware of have all gone to men's prisons. I'm not sure if they were placed in women's prisons initially though.

WarOnWomen · 23/04/2021 08:16

@NiceGerbil

It's all very opaque.

EG the FOI to England police forces. The ones who responded said they recorded on the basis of self declared gender, but none had any records of when they started doing that or why.

It's a massive change and yet. Nope. No records no discussion it just quietly got changed (which thinking about it must have involved training a lot of police officers) and no one knows why when or anything.

The training point I only just thought of. How was this change rolled out and do quietly in each force? And there's no records at all??!!

I find it hard to believe that there are no records of when it was rolled out in each force. There would be emails, training, training notes, dates the sex/gender changes recorded on computer programmes. It would be disingenuous for any organisation to say they have no records or that they don't know.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:42

Well that's what they said in the FOI request.

Just happened by magic.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 19:43

Like the dog ate my homework response from the Welsh government about a EIA (can't remember what for).

They did one but it was lost and there were no emails with drafts in or anything. They said.

Ghislainedefeligonde · 23/04/2021 20:52

Hmmm I wonder what stage they decided to transition - after their arrest perhaps??
Yet another paedophile identifying as a woman and being recorded as such. Yet no one can honestly look at ‘Jessica’ and believe they are looking at a woman. It’s utter madness Angry

ShastaBeast · 23/04/2021 21:20

Why are there so many stories of paedophiles who are transitioning M2F? What’s the link? Psychological or just taking advantage? Obviously being trans doesn’t equal paedophile.

I came across the concept of autopaedophilia today trying to understand the link to anime today. My ASD DD is into anime and I’m worried for her. Understanding this is surely going to help the wider society and the criminal justice system.

NiceGerbil · 23/04/2021 21:25

Sex offenders in general.

Bad time in blokes prison
Women's prisons are different due to nature of female crime/ background etc
The majority of men in a women's prison will be stronger etc than the women
Possiblity of further offending etc for sex offenders
Why wouldn't you?

ShastaBeast · 23/04/2021 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ShastaBeast · 23/04/2021 22:11

I got deleted for mentioning the top of a mountain apparently. I didn’t realise that was contentious. I’m more interested as a parent protecting a child than the wider issues.

Are cases such as these ever referenced by activists? They are a strong case to argue against.

There is something more, maybe not to this case or similar, but linked to the anime side. Lots of Reddit types posting artwork etc. Again I don’t believe trans equals weird anime stuff. I just want to understand so I can prepare my DD and avoid any issues. I also find the psychology interesting. MN is probably not the best place to ask these questions sadly.