Confused - has this paedophile been sent to a women’s prison?

[UggerlyMummy]

This article uses female pronouns for the offender in question but doesn’t actually refer to them anywhere as female or as a woman. It says she was “going through the process of gender reassignment and was terrified of going to a male prison”. But doesn’t say whether they were sent to a women’s prison or to a men’s one?

Sorry, I know this subject has been discussed over and over again so my posting about it is fairly pointless. I guess I just needed to share my feelings about it, having just read this on my local news site.

It just feels weird and upsetting that this crime may be recorded as being perpetrated by a woman. And that the offender may be in a women’s jail although that’s not been made clear.

If Smith's fear of going to a male prison has been mentioned in the article, then I presume this is because that is the estate that Smith will initially be allocated to because Smith does not have a GRC.

If that is the case, and Smith does not have a GRC, then after initially being allocated to a male prison, Smith can apply to be transferred to a female prison. This will go before a case board who will 'consider' the 'relevant factors' and 'risks'.

If Smith has a GRC, then initial allocation would be to a women's prison. (But in this case surely fear of being sent to a men's prison would not have been raised?)

As for how the crime is recorded, it all seems to be as clear as mud. However, there is a good chance that this will have been recorded in the female crime stats as having been committed by a woman, even if Smith has no GRC.

@NiceGerbil

It's all very opaque.

EG the FOI to England police forces. The ones who responded said they recorded on the basis of self declared gender, but none had any records of when they started doing that or why.

It's a massive change and yet. Nope. No records no discussion it just quietly got changed (which thinking about it must have involved training a lot of police officers) and no one knows why when or anything.

The training point I only just thought of. How was this change rolled out and do quietly in each force? And there's no records at all??!!

It appears that at least in some cases the police records are simply transferred over to the court case management systems, so if sex/gender has been recorded by that police force on the basis of self-id, this will transfer over.

It also appears that at some, but not all, stages of the process there is the opportunity to correct 'errors'. But who, how, what, why and using what as definitive evidence is, as I just posted, as clear as mud....

There's no transparency on what the process is, what is considered etc etc

Certainly prisoners have been moved to the male estate due to their behaviour.

And then you get the stuff like Scotland.

TWAW. Update hate crime laws. Leave sex out (again). Legislation widely criticised as being too open etc.
The other change from sex to gender when rape victims wanting a female doc to examine them.
No problem he said it's trivial it changes nothing.

Justice chap said it's all fine don't be silly.

Then recently a thing about police recording crime by self ID gender not sex.

Hoo-ha.

Scottish government say nothing to do with us this is a police matter!!!!

This sort of thing happens all the time.

There is no engagement, transparency, proper explanations, response to issues raised.

It's completely bizarre.

The paedophile Hunter cases seem to consistently target vulnerable people with mild learning disabilities/ autism. The reports are always exactly the same pattern. They initiate contact then encourage contact. It’s grooming vulnerable people in my opinion.

Whatever the risk assessments carried out (allegedly) on male prisoner without a GRC that wish to be placed in the female estate (obvs the GRC holders go straight to the female estate, regardless of their crime or history), they clearly aren't particularly effective considering the number that have taken place.

I wonder what sort of risk assessment could determine that a male prisoner has zero risk of raping or sexually assaulting a woman while locked up in close proximity?

Do they ask them if they intend to rape a woman while in prison?

Don't know much about paedophile hunter.

I do know that the police pose as children online in order to catch dangerous men.

I find the framing of the man who was under the impression he was talking to a child and did this

'Smith sent sexual pictures of women and arranged to meet in person. When told a 12-year-old might also come along Smith encouraged it and indicated she should also be part of the sexual activity.'

As a victim of grooming is totally bizarre.

‘Paedophile hunters‘ style themselves as doing everyone a favour, but they really aren’t and have no authority to do so. RitaSue summed it up perfectly.

The police do this as well.

The idea this man was groomed is just totally weird to me.

If it was all suggested by the people posing as children then that would come out in court.

I don’t feel able to say more than I will say in this post but I vaguely know someone this has happened to and it never got as far as a trial, he was advised to plead guilty so went to jail. There are things about the case that I have since found out that made me question these people’s tactics and whether the system understands or cares how easily vulnerable people can be influenced into something that they don’t really understand. Since then two other vulnerable people in my community have also been convicted and reported in the paper in similar way. I think certain groups target certain people they know will get results.

This is different from the police investigating this behaviour. They cannot use the methods that paedophile hunters use.

In this case you have a person pretending to be someone they aren’t captured by someone pretending to be someone they aren’t and the law saying that the person who was pretending to be a child is a child even though they aren’t a child and the person pretending to be a woman is a woman even though they aren’t and legally all of this is absolutely fine.

I think if he has a GRC he automatically goes into the women's estate. However given that he's only just started to say he's a woman (the third paedophile/rapist reported in as many weeks to trans in the run up to their trial), that's unlikely.

N.b. Mumsnet HQ I'm not going to apologise for 'misgendering' (correctly sexing) convicted sex offenders, so deal with me how you wish.

When people behind the profile arrived they saw a person dressed as a male peering through a hedge

Aka a man.

The idea this man was groomed is just totally weird to me. I would have said the same a year ago. But near me there has recently been a case that changed my mind entirely.

A young man with LD, socially inept, was contacted by a Hunter group. He went on to try and meet what he thought was a 13 year old girl in a secluded, covered area, and they cornered him, filmed him cowering, crying.

Longer version: He had been posting in a few chat rooms, was trying to find a girlfriend. They kept initiating conversations with him. They showed a lot of interest in him, their messages, the few that the police saw fit to discuss, flattered him, kept offering him friendship and a day out in the local town. Eventually, having explained his trouble with open spaces, the group identifed a space he felt comfortable meeting 'the girl' in.

The young man was not arrested, let alone prosecuted. The group was warned off, told they had acted in a manner that would get them arrested fr harrassing vulnerable people. Their response was to plaster pictures of him and their version of the story all over Facebook. It was taken down and the author arrested - convicted too.

But locally? The tale of the local pedophile that got away with it persists.

So now, any qualms I had about these Hunter groups have been magnified and I cannot believe any good will ever come of them. From both sides: allowing real pedophiles to get away because of their actions to groomng the vulnerable in order to fulfil their thrill seeking. They are dangerous and should be stopped.

From both sides: allowing real pedophiles to get away because of their actions to groomng the vulnerable in order to fulfil their thrill seeking. They are dangerous and should be stopped.

I couldn't agree more - the entrapment seems largely to be that of adults with learning disabilities whose loneliness and vulnerability leaves them open to abuse. Especially when there is negligible community support from adult social services and as people become older, so too, do any family carers who might otherwise be looking out for them.

Between County Lines and self-appointed vigilantes, it's a dangerous time to be someone with learning/intellectual or cognitive disabilties.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

From both sides: allowing real pedophiles to get away because of their actions to groomng the vulnerable in order to fulfil their thrill seeking. They are dangerous and should be stopped.

I couldn't agree more - the entrapment seems largely to be that of adults with learning disabilities whose loneliness and vulnerability leaves them open to abuse. Especially when there is negligible community support from adult social services and as people become older, so too, do any family carers who might otherwise be looking out for them.

Between County Lines and self-appointed vigilantes, it's a dangerous time to be someone with learning/intellectual or cognitive disabilties.

This is so true. The person I mentioned was targeted by County Lines and then Paedophile Hunters and only has support from his elderly grandmother.

@Datun

That is a male. They may be terrified of going to a male prison, but no more terrified than anyone else, I should imagine. But certainly should never, ever be going to a female one.

Ffs. This is absolute insanity.

I would imagine that most convicted paedophiles are terrified of being put into a male prison. Isn't that why Protective Custody exists?