Article in the Daily Express on John Lewis and Changing Rooms

[ChristinaXYZ]

You can just about read it from this photo on twitter. There's a opinion piece at the bottom from Baroness Nicholson talking about the confusion of the Equality Act trap.

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1384814246790410240/photo/2

I complained to JL a few years ago about this greetings card and they basically said it was a great seller so they didn’t care about the message it sent.

I received this in reply from JL (they were prompt at least).

'Thank you for contacting John Lewis & Partners.

I understand that you have contacted us regarding our customers being able to choose which changing rooms they feel most comfortable using based on the gender with which they identify.

Whilst I can appreciate that you may feel some trepidation about this news, I would like to inform you that John Lewis aims to be an inclusive business. This is to ensure all of our customers are welcome to use whichever fitting room makes them feel the most comfortable.

As a co-owned business we ensure that all of our Partners understand their responsibilities and exercise their judgement appropriately if any customer were to act inappropriately, the necessary action would be taken.

In order to close your account, please click here to be redirected to the Customer Rights page on the Waitrose website (Please read the information on this page) or follow the steps below:
Go to www.johnlewis.com
Scroll to the bottom of the page and click “Our privacy notice”
Scroll down and click “12. What are your rights over your personal data?”
Click “completing an online form”
Follow the steps detailed
You will then need to fill out a form to request that your account is to be removed and when prompted, select "Right to Erasure". Your request will be dealt with as quickly as possible. Soon after submitting it, you’ll receive an acknowledgement, sent by your chosen contact method.

Kind regards,

XXXXX
my John Lewis'

I've responded, pointing out that women who are in fact 'uncomfortable' with using a mixed sex changing room don't have the choice about where they can go. Pointing out that it's not very inclusive towards women whose religious beliefs preclude them from using a mixed sex changing room. Pointing out that the EA 2010 not only states that single sex spaces are allowed but that it's within the relevant SEX GROUP that inclusivity needs to be featured - so unlawful not to allow a transman in, not that you have to allow a transwoman.
Pointing out that it's not very 'kind' to act AFTER a woman has been groped, flashed at, assaulted or made to feel uncomfortable - and in fact this is very tone deaf in the wake of Sarah Everard's murder and the wave of acknowledgement from women how unsafe they often feel in every day life. I'm not holding my breath for a reply though.

I did thank them for the advice on how to close my account, this at least was helpful.

Had to name change.

JL are currently making a big deal of going after Mothercare's customers. You would have thought respecting & valuing mothers would be in their interests.

JL allow staff to write to their internal publication anonymously to raise their concerns on any topic and receive a response from a senior manager.
I tried. The response was basically we are inclusive so be kind.

Their shiny new HR system asks staff for their gender but does not record their sex.
Stonewall definitions trump legal ones apparently.

It's very simple- use the Men's changing rooms. Any partner that says "oh, excuse me Madam" will get short shrift- I'm wearing trousers, carry no handbag, I'm more comfortable in the men's than queueing for the women's, thanks.

yeah well, John Lewis lost out on us spending on two undercounter freezers and a fridge freezer due to this policy. They were our preferred shop. they will not be getting a replacement washing machine either which will be coming up soon.

Their shiny new HR system asks staff for their gender but does not record their sex.
Stonewall definitions trump legal ones apparently

Yep - the staff Equality / Diversity Policy studiously avoids the word “sex” and uses “gender” instead.

I think the attitude of sorting out an issue after it has occurred is the most harmful aspect of this and I am struggling to see why companies are quite so willing to state this publicly and think it's a good approach..
We are going to do this until someone gets hurt and then we might act, sort of, maybe.
Women are being offered up as tethered goats.

@OhHolyJesus

I think this tells you all you need to know about John Lewis - but I'll check the Twitter out too

Well I’m far more comfortable shopping elsewhere. And I’ve already told them that. And explained that my sister (who is almost blind now) would never feel safe in a mixed sex changing room, not my elder relatives, nor my Muslim (religious) relatives. But they didn’t care about them.

I have corresponded further and I won't copy the whole chain in case it's a bit excessive but the most recent email from JL&P said:

'I would like to clarify that at John Lewis & Partners, the changing rooms are not mixed. We have simply allowed our customers to use whichever fitting room makes them feel the most comfortable. This is not with the intention of creating an air of alarm or insecurity.

As previously stated, we believe that everyone has the right to be and feel safe, secure and respected while working or shopping. There is no place for abusive behaviour, including any form of discrimination, in our shops or in our Partnership.

Please be advised, there is still privacy and safety within our changing rooms. Each customer has their own cubicle, as they always have done, which is concealed and private.

The notion of offering an alternative space encourages segregation within our customers. Here at John Lewis & Partners, we believe in inclusivity and comfort, not to the detriment of any group of persons.

Regarding this matter, I have forwarded your case to the Director Relations department who will be in touch in due course.'

Is it reasonable to accept the point that the cubicles remain private? I mean, I used to feel comfortable that I could step out of the cubicle to show a friend my clothes or to look in the mirror outside the cubicle, but I guess that's not necessarily something we are obliged to be able to do?

It does feel a bit disingenuous to say that the changing rooms are not mixed sex. If you are inviting a man who identifies as a woman to use the changing room they feel most comfortable in, and they choose the female changing room, then surely it is...?

NB the person at JL&P has not been able to explain to me how the policy isn't discriminatory towards women who have strong religious beliefs that preclude them from sharing a mixed sex space for changing. (I guess that's because they don't consider them 'mixed sex')

@LostInTime

It's very simple- use the Men's changing rooms. Any partner that says "oh, excuse me Madam" will get short shrift- I'm wearing trousers, carry no handbag, I'm more comfortable in the men's than queueing for the women's, thanks.

I was in the big Oxford at store when this all kicked off and was waiting for someone in the menswear dept - opposite was the changing room. I watched an older woman drag an older man in with a few pairs of trousers over her arm (he seemed reluctant).

It was like watching rats deserting a sinking ship as men started to quickly leave the changing rooms (peering at the sign as they went - is didn’t specify sex). It amused me.

Daily mail has also picked this up now.

There’s a store near my office (not JL) who has a trans woman on the team. Staff are usually rotated but this staff member is always in ladies section (underwear /nightwear and posh frocks - the outerwear and daywear is on another floor). The shop also sells menswear, shoes, kids clothes and toys, food, home wear.

They have sex based changing rooms and I once watched as 2 assistants stood at the front of the ladies one, chatting away as a man stood in the middle of the corridor (with curtained cubicles running off either side) as his female companion tried on dress after dress and he loudly gave his opinions on each one.

I was going to try on a dress and said ‘this is the ladies - he shouldn’t be inside here!’ They just nodded a ‘what can you do?’ and did/said nothing.

Youset As a point of interest, a lot of the Director Relations team are based in Scotland.

Why are John Lewis not being kind to females?
Surely we are quite a proportion of their customer base?

They have been my first port of call for most things for years and years. How sad to have to avoid them in future.

Oh well - one less account to manage!

@LostInTime

It's very simple- use the Men's changing rooms. Any partner that says "oh, excuse me Madam" will get short shrift- I'm wearing trousers, carry no handbag, I'm more comfortable in the men's than queueing for the women's, thanks.

You don't have to wear trousers. Rock up in high heels and make up and go into the men's changing room. Dress code is optional.

Another name changer - I also wrote to the internal news - and was ignored.
The shiny new HR system is American no? So Gender trumps sex over there anyway

John Lewis dropped their price promise and also seemed to have dropped their customer service over the last year or so regardless of this issue. Used to by a lot there but haven't bought anything for over a year. Going the way of debenhams.

toffee yes it’s curious that with a choice of working in any dept , it’s the women’s underwear section that is always the most attractive to certain people. This was certainly happening in a famous store in a northern city.

Can anyone provide the best email to write to?

@highame

Lets all start using the Mens - that'll shake it up

You’d avoid any hidden cameras as well. It’s a win-win situation!

I really think I am going to start using the men’s in order to make a point. If they’re effectively allowing both areas to be mixed sex then I’ll choose the one where men have at least respected NOT hoofing into the women’s one.
If I feel more comfortable in that changing room then this is in line with their policy.

JL should have a policy of changing rooms segregated by sex and a spirit of inclusivity to those identifying as whatever gender they wish.
Ie people identifying as women go into the men’s changing room and MEN make them feel comfortable about doing so.

Why does a transwoman’s desire to ‘feel comfortable’ trump a woman’s desire to feel comfortable in a single sex space?

It’s stonewall - I sneaked a look at my dh latest inclusion training and the inclusion policy criteria are the same - gender listed not sex. Makes me mad. What can be done?

Sorry should have said - I don’t want to name my husband’s employer but it’s a Stonewall top 100 employer

What can be done? Send them links to the EA actual guidance.

I wish that challenging the incorrect statement of law puts the fear in me.