Ohio bans abortions of foetuses with Down Syndrome

[MoltenLasagne]

"An Ohio law prohibiting doctors from performing abortions of foetuses diagnosed with Down’s syndrome has been upheld by a US court, setting up a possible showdown at the Supreme Court."

"The law raises the prospect of 18-month prison sentences for doctors who perform abortions while aware that a Down’s syndrome diagnosis, or the possibility of one, is influencing the decision. Violators could also lose their medical licence. The legislation does not criminalise the actions of pregnant women, however."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9bb4fd66-9cc1-11eb-a908-ec96e110073e?shareToken=fbd9f218127c022d416e5d6bb8ff880a

Very concerning developments in Ohio. It strikes me that so much of the conversation is about punishing women for choosing if they can cope with raising a child with Down Syndrome, rather than increasing support for families who have children with Down Syndrome.

So you have your tests for Down's at 11/12 weeks. And if the test is positive or likely positive you are then not allowed to terminate? But if the test is neg/likely neg you can? Makes absolutely no sense. Fucking woman-hating child-hating fundamentalist wankers.

Yes, that's the size of it Snow

Will women not just lie and say they want to terminate for other reasons, which would still be allowed? I guess they're hoping doctors would be too concerned about the impact on them if they allow them to, and become scared to approve the abortions even where another reason is given and documented? Scary.

What this is, is punishing poor people.
Those with money can leave the state. Those with money can afford the associated cost of having a child with disabilities.

I assume Ohio will also be passing a Bill to ensure that support services for children & adults with Down’s syndrome are going to receive a huge boost of resources to ensure families aren't left to cope alone??

What’s that you say? No? Well colour me fucking shocked

Quite apart from anything else, that seems like a bizarre decision: allowing abortions, just not for Downs Syndrome - have I got that right?
I assume the lawmakers are playing a longer game?

What this is, is punishing poor people.
Those with money can leave the state. Those with money can afford the associated cost of having a child with disabilities.

YY, excellent point.

@Floisme

Quite apart from anything else, that seems like a bizarre decision: allowing abortions, just not for Downs Syndrome - have I got that right? I assume the lawmakers are playing a longer game?

I assume so. The general game plan seems to be to chip away by adding restrictions here and there that eventually make abortion effectively illegal.

I assume so. The general game plan seems to be to chip away by adding restrictions here and there that eventually make abortion effectively illegal.

Yes, it's clear that's what's happening.

Many states have made abortion very difficult, especially after 12 weeks. I'm not sure about Ohio but I'm guessing the ds is no longer an exception to the 12 week rule. Do I agree, not sure because whilst I believe in the right to choose early in pregnancy, I have several friends with ds kids /young adults so perhaps I have a rose tinted view of parenting a ds child

I will never truly comprehend why men are so determined to police what women/girls do with their bodies. I understand it logically, but I can't get my head around the way these men must feel so entitled and so expectant of being in control in this way. I can't imagine thinking that I had a (god-given?) right to legislate on what men can do with their bodies, eg make vasectomies illegal, with lengthy prison sentences for doctors who carry it out.

Interestingly one of the associations who support families of children with DS are also against the law and have stated they are being used as a convenient wedge issue.

This is fucking terrifying. The US is regressing very rapidly and it's disturbing to watch.

The general game plan seems to be to chip away by adding restrictions here and there that eventually make abortion effectively illegal.

We call them TRAP laws. Forgive me for linking to Planned Parenthood

www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/issues/abortion/trap-laws

They are meant to do exactly that. Where I live, a transvaginal ultrasound and a lecture must be given first. Talk about literal violence. As a rape survivor and victim of reproductive coercion who cries / uncontrollably during pap smears, that fills me with blind rage. I’d rather have an abortion. I think this law is more for the people who are pushing the “abortion is eugenics ”angle. They try that a lot in minority neighborhoods with billboards with pics of black and hispanic babies.

Oh my God.

This seems very strange. They do seem keen to remove reproductive rights in the US. I am glad there's some extra consideration being given to people with additional needs though. It's quite surprising, given the UKs current views.

I am 100% for changing the laws about abortion for babies with Down's syndrome here in the UK. You can currently abort a baby up until it's born if it has Down's syndrome, even if no associated heart issues etc have been identified. I think that's horrific. Full term abortions should not be allowed for a simple learning disability. (And I have a 6 year old with Down's syndrome who is AMAZING, so this is a subject I know a lot about).

I am absolutely pro choice though. I just think the limits should be much more reasonable. If this new law bans abortion at any stage due to a prenatal diagnosis that seems way too far the other way. The limits should be the same as for any pregnancy.

Though I will say, having a child with downs syndrome is not the horrible life sentence it's made out to be. We have to remember that no matter how many chromosomes you have, people matter equally. Yes, of course there are some extra issues potentially involved, but some people, like my daughter, are medically perfect and just a little bit developmentally delayed. She's perfect.

@moochingtothepub

Many states have made abortion very difficult, especially after 12 weeks. I'm not sure about Ohio but I'm guessing the ds is no longer an exception to the 12 week rule. Do I agree, not sure because whilst I believe in the right to choose early in pregnancy, I have several friends with ds kids /young adults so perhaps I have a rose tinted view of parenting a ds child

Then you are free to choose to continue a pregnancy after a diagnosis of Down syndrome. Your rose tinted glasses, however, should not be used to judge another woman's life altering choices.

That is horrible. Absolutely horrible. It's just adding to the absolute anguish of an already heartbreaking situation. How dare they.

One persons experience with DS is not the same as someone else’s. There was a someone in DHs family with DS. They had little ability and many medical issues and were terrified of hospitals. They were never toilet trained their whole life.

I imagine in the US having DS might be considered an existing condition in terms of medical insurance?

I think some people forget children with DS grow into adults with DS.

It’s ok if they are high functioning but not every one is

Some need constant around the clock care. It’s one of the reasons I have said that if I had a high chance of a DS pregnancy, I would with high regret, terminate.

That is chilling.

That's true, Soubriquet.

So if you had test which revealed DS and a scan which showed significant heart defects, which can be a issue in DS babies, could you request an abortion because of the significant heart problems?

The debate on abortion shouldn’t be centred on any condition a foetus may have, it should be purely based on the autonomy a woman should have over her body. Many people know of children/adults with DS and citing those cases only puts a smokescreen up. Of course a parent who chose to continue with a pregnancy or only found out at birth their child had DS is overwhelming most likely to say they would not change the outcome of their pregnancy, I know I would. Similarly one who chose termination most likely wouldn’t admit it if they thought they had made a wrong choice.
As I said, the only debate should be about whether women can decide to have an abortion or not.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

That's true, Soubriquet.

My dh was one that sort of forgot. He was one of those protesting about the DS abortion line in, was it coronation street?

When he talked about DS he just talked about small children with massive smiles who seemed happy all the time

When I pointed out that it could be the other side of the spectrum such as still needing their nappy changed as an adult, and they could have violent mood swings as well as severe heart problems, the penny dropped.