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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

More transgender people are hiding their identity at work in the U.K. Why?

60 replies

Trixie78 · 13/04/2021 00:20

www.google.com/amp/s/theweek.com/articles-amp/976336/more-transgender-people-are-hiding-identity-work-uk-why

WTAF did I just read. I couldn't even finish it, I got to:

Feminism has always been a fight about the definition of gender, about what the relation between sex and gender might be. And it's never been cohesive."

This is not my understanding of feminism 🤨

OP posts:
ArcheryAnnie · 13/04/2021 15:20

@McPancreas

Stonewall - This is a massive problem

Stonewall also - "There's plenty of training available to ensure a trans-inclusive workplace"

And the grift goes on...

Got it in one.

Grifters ahoy.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/04/2021 16:33

From the article:

British author J.K. Rowling's comments on same-sex spaces further stoked hostility against the transgender community in the U.K.

No it bloody didn't! They were the ones stoking the hostility against her. Her views were calm, measured and sensitively expressed. She wasn't the one making the death threats, trying to discredit them in their workplace, 'deplatforming' anyone or making threats of physical or sexual violence. Nor was she the one making repulsive accusations that those who are victims of male abusive and violence are 'weaponising your trauma'. The lobbyists were the ones gleefully engaging in all the above.

That they can treat one woman this way and make it all about themselves being the victims is well-nigh incredible. They really have DARVO down to a fine art.

ArcheryAnnie · 13/04/2021 17:29

I have a history of experiencing gender noncomformity, and so recognise it in others. That by itself would not influence me one way or another in hiring.

What would affect a hiring is someone being a narcissistic dick, about whatever subject.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 13/04/2021 18:00

I can't bear that toe-curlingly nauseating phrase 'bringing your whole self to work'. I don't want to. My workplace gets my total commitment to my job. It gets my research expertise. It gets my dedication, accuracy, care and professionalism, and it gets this (as a general rule) at significantly more than my contracted hours. Not to mention this is now seen as an expectation in a world where 'action short of a strike' is taken as what should be the norm of working to contract.

My employer gets quite enough of me. Some aspects of myself are very much mine, and I consider my privacy an entitlement that I'm not prepared to compromise. Collecting data about my sexuality, etc is beyond their remit. People don't have any automatic right to this information just because they ask for it, and I am wholly sick of this culture of an automatic assumption of disclosure. Even worse are the constant KiT meetings (until this year, when WFH became the norm) expecting staff to disclose their 'feelings' and have detailed discussions about the state of their mental wellbeing. I have no wish to discuss such deeply personal matters with a LM I don't trust and who is not in my confidence. And yes, my employer is just about up to its nuts in Allies, and is drawing up consultation documents very much to the detriment of the privacy and dignity of women at this moment.

COVID has in many ways been an absolute godsend. It's removed the claustrophobia associated with this constantly probing, inquisitive, tell-all and bare your soul (ugh) environment. I really don't relish the prospect of returning to that.

Delphinium20 · 13/04/2021 18:35

COVID has in many ways been an absolute godsend. It's removed the claustrophobia associated with this constantly probing, inquisitive, tell-all and bare your soul (ugh) environment. I really don't relish the prospect of returning to that.

Well said. I feel the same way. I share personal details at work only if a person is my friend. I don't believe oversharing creates a professional atmosphere-in fact I believe it does the opposite. I had an experience where a new manager over shared her SIL's infertility and adoption journey to such an extent that I felt embarrassed for the SIL who I didn't know and lost a great deal of respect for manager as a result. I would have preferred not to know this part of her...as it made it difficult for me to trust my new manager to have my back with work projects. If she treated a family member so poorly, imagine how she'd treat an employee!

BettyFilous · 13/04/2021 19:25

@Delphinium20

COVID has in many ways been an absolute godsend. It's removed the claustrophobia associated with this constantly probing, inquisitive, tell-all and bare your soul (ugh) environment. I really don't relish the prospect of returning to that.

Well said. I feel the same way. I share personal details at work only if a person is my friend. I don't believe oversharing creates a professional atmosphere-in fact I believe it does the opposite. I had an experience where a new manager over shared her SIL's infertility and adoption journey to such an extent that I felt embarrassed for the SIL who I didn't know and lost a great deal of respect for manager as a result. I would have preferred not to know this part of her...as it made it difficult for me to trust my new manager to have my back with work projects. If she treated a family member so poorly, imagine how she'd treat an employee!

My sentiments exactly.
Justhadathought · 13/04/2021 20:44

I don't see what anyone's personal feelings around identity has to do with work. Just get on with your job, and do it it to the best of your ability.

Justhadathought · 13/04/2021 20:47

There will always be personal things that we don't share with others in the workplace; for a variety of reasons. Some things are just too intimate to trust to such a situation.

NiceGerbil · 14/04/2021 00:00

'England. Almost 80 percent of her colleagues were male, and the culture was very "laddish," she said.

"All of the work parties were just, 'Let's go and get smashed on Stella [beer],' kind of thing," she said. "And I witnessed lots of homophobia toward another one of my colleagues."'

How was this workplace for women?
Were the women never invited to the drinks or did some of them drink Stella with the chaps (shocker)

If this person knew that the drinks were blokey then they must have gone at least once

If the blokes were excluding women/ being really sexist then what did this person try to do about it? Anything?

Ditto witnessing homophobic bullying. Should have talked to a manager or HR.

They left so never knew how it would have been taken. (Although may well have been right).

And the big one. The idea is that the only reason men would be awful to a trans woman at work, men who have form for being blokey, sexist (sounds like) and homophobic, because they've been listening to some women on the internet? That's ridiculous.

Note there is no mention of the women at work at all. Which is a bit of a gap.

SunsetBeetch · 14/04/2021 07:45

And the big one. The idea is that the only reason men would be awful to a trans woman at work, men who have form for being blokey, sexist (sounds like) and homophobic, because they've been listening to some women on the internet? That's ridiculous.

It is. It absolutely enrages me. Blokey sexist homophobic blokes taking their cues from feminist women? I don't think so somehow.

Reminds me of quite a prominent TRA who got harrased by some such men on a bus, along with her friend. I felt for her, it sounded awful. Then she finished her recounting by saying that this is where "terf rhetoric" leads. As if the sort of nasty thugs who harrass people in public would know what a terf is, let alone take any notice of them. I didn't have any less sympathy for her, but I was agog that she used it to have a dig at "terfs".

I don't know what it is: misogyny, emotional blackmail, stupidity, cowardice in not going after the real perpetrators. But I'm not having it!

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