Rod Liddle on PSHE in schools

[RoyalCorgi]

Rod Liddle's column today is about the sexual harassment being reported in private schools. He says private schools are no worse than state schools in this respect (almost certainly true). Anyway, the bit I thought was interesting was this, almost a throwaway remark:

"More to the point, though, is the DfE’s conviction that PSHE is the route to salvation. This subject, in various forms, took up two hours a week of my daughter’s schooling, despite it consisting of stuff that should be left to parents to inculcate. Two hours! Tendentious, progressive rot channelled into their heads, much of the material coming from the LGBT campaigning group Stonewall, an organisation that thinks women don’t really exist. The pro-trans propaganda, the promotion of the idea that everyone can be exactly what they want to be (at the age of 11) and hang the consequences for the individual or society. The facile and plainly wrong insistence that boys and girls are exactly the same in their sexual desires. PSHE was the main reason we moved away from the state sector: it is not compulsory in private schools."

I wonder how many parents feel the same way? It's interesting that he felt so strongly about it that it was the main reason for moving his daughter out of the state sector.

Article here for anyone who wants to comment - I don't have a share token, I'm afraid:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lay-off-private-schools-gavin-theres-bad-behaviour-in-comprehensives-too-86d92gfmd

He’s repulsive but interesting comment about PHSE and much of the material coming from Stonewall.

That also means that even if private schools and state schools had the same amount of overall teaching time the private school pupils have 2 additional hours a week teaching of useful subjects

Or maybe there's a link behind reported higher harassment in private schools and less/no PSHE teaching? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@SingCat

Or maybe there's a link behind reported higher harassment in private schools and less/no PSHE teaching? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think it's more to do with children in private schools having parents who work in the media to get the story out. Anecdotally from relatives with children in state schools, the harassment from male pupils, some really young, is very bad there too. A teenage relative has just moved from a mixed sex state school, where she was being harassed by boys and was very distressed, to a single sex school and she is so much happier for it.

I can assure you, SingCat, that there is plenty of sexual harassment and abuse in state schools - but the media have chosen recently to focus on the private sector, probably because it's a better story. Soma Sara, who set up Everyone's Invited, says there have been plenty of reports from state schools. Three years ago the NEU did a report showing that there was extensive sexual harassment in state schools:

neu.org.uk/press-releases/sexual-harassment-girls-widespread-schools

Share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dbcca91e-9954-11eb-a188-d47488c09cc7?shareToken=3e61d540703cbe236466d8f3fe152b4f

He is such a pompous ass. I rarely read his column except when directed from MN. He is deflecting the problem oooh no it's state schools too. It's bloody men! Start educating your sons!

I'm well aware that sexual harassment takes place in state schools too - I was responding to StillAFemale's comment that PSHE is not a useful subject, when anyone familiar with the actual curriculum would be well aware that while, of course, it can't prevent harassment, it has an incredibly useful role to play.

It's interesting that he felt so strongly about it that it was the main reason for moving his daughter out of the state sector

Hmmm. Well, about two years ago, when he wrote about his objections to lessons in PSHE (and also Geography, History and Religious Studies btw) at the state grammar school his daughter was going to, he actually didn’t mention trans issues or sexual harassment at all, as he has in this article. What he actually wrote, and I quote, was:

‘.......Then they came out from behind the machine and were revealed to be, one after the other: two gay black men with an adopted baby, two women, two disabled people, a Down’s syndrome woman with a non-Down’s syndrome man. ‘Love has no labels’ was the message of this cringefest’.

He removed his daughter from state school because of PSHE lessons?Liddle makes things up to fit his audience. Less palatable to think he’s got a point when you know what he actually objects to is stuff like the above quote.
So I don’t think I’ll be patting him on the back anytime soon, regardless of what my own opinions on Stonewall might be.

I totally agree - PSHE is a ridiculous waste of time my one of my dcs' schools has cut lunchtime to half an hour a day and uses the other half hour to indoctrinate them with PSHE bollocks every-single-bloody-day. They would be so much better off having the half hour to develop their social skills in the playground over a real lunch break.

Under the pressure to meet each week's deadline with an entertaining column that plays to the crowd, consider the possibility that columnists may become unreliable narrators.

@PotholeHellhole

Under the pressure to meet each week's deadline with an entertaining column that plays to the crowd, consider the possibility that columnists may become unreliable narrators.

Indeed. And, if anyone’s interested, his objections to Geography was students learning about an Eritrean refugee child and why they might need asylum in the UK. RS - framing Islam as being a peaceful religion and History - that British colonialism and slavery might not have been good things. I’m sure you can imagine his tone. He’s entitled to his opinions, of course, but his assertion that all of these things are taught as some kind of partisan leftie indoctrination and the children are not allowed to question or form opinions is, I’m afraid, bullshit. And particularly so with regard to the school he was alluding to, one of the main tenets of education being to foster and support students’ robust critical thinking, challenge assumptions and speak up for themselves. ‘Playing to The Crowd’ Times style in this piece meant including a nod to trans ideology. His similar article in the Spectator two years ago meant ‘playing to the crowd’ included making his homophobic, ableist, racist narrative much more clear.

How does PSHE take up so much of the curriculum?

We had it for 40 minutes once a week, iirc. That was in the late 90s.

@CrazyNeighbour

a Down’s syndrome woman with a non-Down’s syndrome man.

No scope for problems there.

Sure. But that’s not the issue Rod Liddle cares about. Yes we can agree with some things that some people say, without that meaning we therefore agree with all of the the things those people say, but, I just wish people wouldn’t think that the likes of Rod Liddle actually give a shit, beyond their next article, about these things that affect some of us quite considerably. The OP framed this as being interesting that he removed his child from state school because of PSHE, indeed that’s what he implies. I don’t believe for one second this to be wholly true. He isn’t a friend or ally to women. At all.

An earlier distressing thread about young children who are raped or sexually assaulted in school:

In the first incident, a staff member saw the children in the corner of the playground – but then proceeded to tell the girl off.

“She was told off for having her knickers and her tights down around by her knees with one of these boys behind her,” Anna said.

On a second occasion, another member of staff saw one of the boys with his head up her skirt. The assistant told off the girl for letting the boy stick his head up her skirt, and the boys were just told to “run away”. The girl was not talked to separately, asked what had happened or whether she was OK.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364173-Our-kids-were-raped-by-classmates-DfE-wont-listen

I can't believe that anyone can genuinely object to schools teaching a subject which, for the first time, is making a genuine effort to teach children to manage their mental health, to understand consent and personal boundaries, and give them the skills they need to stay safe on the net (among many other equally useful things). What exactly would you like them to be learning instead @MsFogi, more maths?

I totally agree - PSHE is a ridiculous waste of time my one of my dcs' schools has cut lunchtime to half an hour a day and uses the other half hour to indoctrinate them with PSHE bollocks every-single-bloody-day

I used to be a Head of PSHE.
Oh, that my job at the time was genuinely unnecessary - but, as you can imagine, there are so many children with so many gaps in knowledge and understanding of everyday things that their parents simply failed to address, then someone had to be there for them.

Don’t assume that PSHE is just sex ed either. The English and Welsh frameworks are HUGE and given virtually no curriculum time in most schools.

I actually like PSHE lessons (independent school). It all seems to be about body positivity, healthy eating, healthy exercise, being considerate about others’ feelings and respect for other cultures and religions.

Actually I don’t even know what is true and what isn’t with regard to this article tbh. My daughter and his are two academic years apart. My daughter hasn’t done PSHE at state school since she started studying her GCSE options. She’s now Year 12. Of course, curriculum rules may have changed since then, and maybe his daughter would have had to study PSHE beyond Year 8, I can’t be certain. So, two years ago, when he first started this reference to state school ‘propaganda’, moving to an Independent school may have negated the need to study PSHE. However, according to PSHE-association.org, PSHE became compulsory in all schools from September 2020 - though, and I quote:
‘PSHE education was already a requirement in independent schools’. Hmmmm. And, as this article was published today, 21 April 2021, I’d conclude, he’s not being entirely, er, honest. So, even if we’re supposed to believe PSHE was the sole reason he removed his daughter from State school, is his daughter still having PSHE lessons now at Independent school? And if not, is that only because she’s in a key stage where it isn’t compulsory in either state or independent education?
Sorry, but I like facts. Not opinion and ‘comment’ pieces.

Don’t assume that PSHE is just sex ed either
Exactly. But if people are going to read stuff like this article, and believe it, they’re going trot out words like Indoctrination, Propaganda, Partisan Leftie Ideology etc etc

Financial wellbeing, emotional wellbeing, careers and aspirations, bullying, personal safety, peer pressure, how to ask for help...the whole point of PSHE is to keep children safe and give them the tools to succeed.

I don’t think we should be paying any attention to a columnist who’s also written that he couldn’t be a teacher because he couldn’t stop himself sleeping with the students

Financial wellbeing, emotional wellbeing, careers and aspirations, bullying, personal safety, peer pressure, how to ask for help...the whole point of PSHE is to keep children safe and give them the tools to succeed.

Yes, this. Lots of good sound learning going on on PSHE. I'd say it's pretty essential - too many young girls freak out not knowing what a period is, for example. Lots of learning on relationships, consent, bodies. If we want to tackle rape culture and sexism, this is a good place to start.

The content is important, of course. I check it every so often. Most of it is very reasonable and sound.

Not read the article or the whole thread.

On this 'How does PSHE take up so much of the curriculum?' DD is at secondary and it's very wide.

She's doing stuff around finances, debt, pensions at the mo.
There was a topic about citizenship.
Not sure what else. It's not just sex education.

That aside.

Yes there are sex offences committed through the whole school system.

My thoughts are that it may be worse (although we don't know) are

Massive desire to maintain reputation (fees)
Elevated entitlement level in the boys

I suppose the comparable dynamic might the entitlement of boys who are really good at sport in the USA and the protection they get.

However it's obviously endemic across the whole system and this is definitely not the first time it's been raised in a fairly high profile way.

So as with the other times I suspect nothing will change sadly.

@StillAFemale

He’s repulsive but interesting comment about PHSE and much of the material coming from Stonewall.

That also means that even if private schools and state schools had the same amount of overall teaching time the private school pupils have 2 additional hours a week teaching of useful subjects

‘Useful’ was the wrong word here, I meant academic.

‘Repulsive’ was the right word, and I’d want anything he said to be backed up by a reputable source