Male friend's opposing attitude towards women is troubling

[Rae34]

I posted recently on a main board about this male friend in his mid 20s & someone suggested I try this board instead. Of late, the friendship has started to bother me as he contacts me too often & contacts me again when I dont reply. It can be emotionally taxing.

But what I am really bothered about is the person I know day to day and the draft scripts he is sending me (we are both writers)

• I'm part of a feminist organisation giving a platform to women (especially women who have been de platformed for no good reason of late). He has attended some of these online events we have hosted, one of the only men to do so of late. We have decent conversations in person.

• however he has started sending me scripts he is writing. He is always arrogant about it & never asks for feedback, just tells me to 'enjoy' them.

Well I am not enjoying them. I was quite shocked to find the portrayal of the female characters quite sexist. The women are promiscuous & unfeeling. The newest script idea sounds like a porn film with a title that reduces women to their body. I told him frankly that I didnt like the idea.

I am struggling with the person I have known day to day and the person who sits up late at night hammering out scripts about women like this.

It is setting off my creepometer big time although I have known him for 6 years and not had any major issues before. Can I approach this in any way or is this a sign that he isnt the friend he appears to be?

This is sexual harassment, OP. There's no doubt he intends to unsettle and alarm you. Cut him right out of your life, now.

Does he show these bad attitudes to women in real life? If not, I think he’s probably just a bad writer.

PS In my experience almost all creatives are arrogant when it comes to their work so I don’t think that’s necessarily related to his sexism (lol)

Do you think so @Lettera? I actually think he is completely ignorant to the way he is portraying women. I don't think he realises how bad it is or how he comes across.

@OnWednesdaysWeWearMink I actually don't think he is a bad writer. He is fairly good at writing dialogue (important for his TV scripts) but the attitudes are the problem. A PP (@Beowulfa)said that lazy portrayals of women can be quite lucrative - yes absolutely. I know an author who does fairly well & his portrayal of women used to a bit too 'male gaze'y. But he has got better and I just sort of rolled my eyes at these typically lazy descriptions. What I am talking about here actually gives me the 'ick'.

I am a 'creative' and know many writers and artists etc. I disagree Many of us are actually quite self-conscious about how our work will be received and care about honing our craft. He is the most arrogant of more or less any writer I have met.

@Lettera

This is sexual harassment, OP. There's no doubt he intends to unsettle and alarm you. Cut him right out of your life, now.

Absolutely this. It's a very deliberate, calculated move on his part. E is showing you who he is. I bet he is getting a real kick out of it. Probably fuels his fantasies too, thinking about you reading his material.

@Regularsizedrudy

Jesus just ditch the creep. Why all this hand wringing?

We have been friends for six years and I have mainly enjoyed his friendship during that time. I have never ended or faded a friendship in adulthood, so I suppose I am struggling with a bit of guilt. We will definitely meet again at the same future events as well, so burning bridges isn't a great idea.

But little things annoy me. He can be pushy - when we meet up, I'm happy to meet for 2 or 3 hours but this never seems to be enough. He starts to pout if I want to leave after that period, but to me that is a perfectly normal amount of time to catch up with a casual friend.

He also said he thought the waitress fancied him the last time I met him in a bar - I mean really? She was a professional doing her job. We had had a nice afternoon and then he made that comment as we left and I thought 'wtf?'

He's not respecting your boundaries, OP. Pouting? Really? He's guilt tripping you to push your boundaries.

@YouNoob I agree. Had a look back at when he was last describing his latest new idea & how he said he wouldn't tell me anymore because 'I don't want to spoil the rest of it for you ' - I mean really?

I feel a bit sad about fading him out permanently. You are seeing the 'worst cuts' here but there have been plenty of good times in the friendship over the last 6 years. He has recently offered to introduce me to people in the industry (he comes from a famous acting family) but it isn't worth it. I'll make my own way, for better or worse.

He sounds like an absolute tool, especially from your latest update. Perhaps the waitress would like to read his work instead then.

You're right, he does @IdblowJonSnow (great name). But he never used to be like this.

He never used to come across as an arrogant blowhard in person. That is the first time he has ever made a comment like that as well. I am sure the waitress could care less.

Last time I met him he kept telling me how funny I am - I'm a stand up performer. And then he kept telling awful jokes and I didn't laugh at a single one - well they weren't funny! I could tell he wasn't best pleased.

I think I just need to continue the slow fade. Accept he has changed or it has taken this long for him to show me who he really is. Neither option works for the friendship.

'Accept he has changed or it has taken this long for him to show me who he really is. Neither option works for the friendship.'

I think this is it in a nutshell, Rae

I actually think he is completely ignorant to the way he is portraying women. I don't think he realises how bad it is or how he comes across.

You are seeing the 'worst cuts' here but there have been plenty of good times in the friendship over the last 6 years.
Thing is, people rarely are only all bad and intolerable to be with. Most people have a mix of good and bad traits. He has good ones which is why you have been friends. He also has bad.
You need to decide if the bad outweigh the good , for you. It would mean also giving up the good bits about him and you can acknowledge that. But ditching him due to the insurmountable bad bits, isn't to deny the good-- it is just saying that the good isn't good enough anymore to kee things going.

Can you share one of the scripts?

Don’t be daft. He’s trolling you

Just get rid of him

Either he’s changed, or he finally feels comfortable telling you who he is.

But based on his pouting, and claiming wait staff fancy him, I’d say this is who he is.

Just him sharing these type of scripts and telling me to enjoy would be the end for me. No amount of nice chats in the past could make me get past this level of ick. Gross.

'Women have very little idea of how much men hate them.'

You are writing reams about a man who is an insensitive, sexist dickhead. I bet he's sitting there gleeful, getting off on sending you offensive stuff and imagining your reaction.

He sent you porn script, telling you to enjoy it. That's how little respect he has for you and women in general.

It's not a balanced friendship, you sound in awe of him and that's probably why you're not confident about having boundaries, and are kidding yourself that a grown man doesn't quite know what he's doing.

If you do want to continue the friendship that's fine, you know best if you can cope with him. I don't see why you can't just accept what he is however instead of talking about his good points as if that somehow cancels out misogyny or makes him decent.

The thing is that he does seem genuine in person about women and caring about their rights. I wouldn't have been friends with him for 6years if he hadn't. It hasn't seem performative if you see what I mean.

People have said similar about Joss Whedon.

Look, life is short. You have a question mark about this guy. Find others to fill your life.

Should’ve listened to posters on your past thread(s) and stopped wasting your valuable time and energy on this loser - you can still do that.

@QuentinWinters

I think you should tell him you can't reconcile the person you know with the scripts and the way he writes women is shallow, stereotypical and unrealistic. So you don't enjoy them.

This.

Sounds like a covert narcissist to me.

The thing is that he does seem genuine in person about women and caring about their rights. I wouldn't have been friends with him for 6years if he hadn't. It hasn't seem performative if you see what I mean.

It was becoming a thing when I was at university in the late 70s/early 80s for some men to espouse feminism as a way to attract women. But they often gave themselves away by trying to tell me (and other feminists) how we should do feminist living better.

This is why I'd much rather hang out with slightly chauvinistic men; at least they're honest and you know where you stand with them And you can drop kick them with impunity if they too chauvinist & sexist.

@DifficultBloodyWoman

The thing is that he does seem genuine in person about women and caring about their rights. I wouldn't have been friends with him for 6years if he hadn't. It hasn't seem performative if you see what I mean.

People have said similar about Joss Whedon.

Look, life is short. You have a question mark about this guy. Find others to fill your life.

Thanks, I think you are right.

I'm not sure about the covert narcissist thing @AdHominemNonSequitur - I looked it up & it says they usually don't bother to compliment, whereas he is complimentary & has supported me in my own work over the years. But I certainly see narcissistic traits in him, yes.

There is no 'question mark' lingering over my other friends. I know who they are and have a good grasp of their values more or less. I thought I knew who this guy was but the good parts of the friendship no longer outweigh the bad for me.

We are likely to cross paths at some point once lockdown ends and work in the same industry. Therefore I will just continue the slow fade & be civil in person. He may well confront me about why I have cooled off at some point. I would rather not have to have that conversation.

Stop giving him headspace. You’re spending far too much time thinking about this tosser.