Advice

[MizzleEyed]

My neice came out as trans 6 months ago. She is autistic which I think has quite a lot to do with it.

The difficulty is what to tell my kids. They are 5 and 7 and love their cousin. Dd7 is fairly gender non conforming and has always had a tendency to copy DN. She has even used the phrase 'DN likes this and she's a girl' when she was teased by a friend for liking 'boy things'.
How do I tell them without upsetting DN too much, confusing my kids completely or worse making them feel that they can't like whatever they want to or that maybe that means they are boys too. We haven't seen DN for a while obviously but looks like that may change soon and I don't know how to prepare them.

Gosh it's hard to come up with child friendly language. (Without pissing off a lot of people)

Perhaps use the language that is used in school about religion

Eg Christians believe that...

What do they know about reproduction?

If they know about eggs and seeds you can tell them that whether you are a girl or boy baby is determined when egg and seed come together. Or perhaps that they grow as either a boy or a girl in mummies tummies if not.

Some people believe that this is what makes people girls or boys and this can not be changed. Other people believe that the things you like doing or wearing or how you feel about yourself is what makes you a boy or girl. Dn believes she is a boy... Do not comment on what you think of this as it could be repeated to dn. You can say that you believe different things. Use religions as an example of how people believe different things. They should be familiar with this from school.

I think you will need to explain to DD that the things she likes are ok because people can like all sorts of things.... Sports,games, coloursclothing can belong to any one, girl or boy in your opinion. It already sounds like she is getting bullied or teased for her choices and that will be upsetting. You may need to counter any thoughts that she is wrong/ a boy for liking stereotypical boys things.

How old is she?

What has changed?

Clothes- so what. No need to say anything.
Name? X likes being called y now, no big deal

What is the actual situation?

Did you have a post deleted recently OP, about not wanting to take your daughters to see DN? How old is DN?

I’d probably try and discuss this with my brother/sister/in-law as appropriate and agree a joint approach to both respect what DN is going through and also your need to protect your daughters. Sadly they are going to be exposed to gender ideology at some point regardless. Probably it is best to take a simple factual approach, X believe this and would like to be called Y, don’t go into any more detail just very simple need-to-know, whilst focusing otherwise on ensuring that your girls understand sexual reproduction at an age-appropriate level, also are they the right age group for the My Body Is Me book? And also talking about different people believe different things that can’t all be true (like all the different religions) but that’s it’s nice to respect other people’s beliefs even if you don’t believe the same thing.

Thanks everyone. They do know about reproduction and that has always been the basis of how I have explained why they are girls and daddy is a boy. I've also always explained that is the only difference between boys and girls and they can like whatever they want to, dress however they like and there is no such thing as boy things or girl things. School of course is a different matter and DD7 went through a brief pink and fluffy phase when she started school which was fairly short lived but I think in response to a bit of teasing so I was pleased she had a good role model in DN.
DN is 20 and I understand is taking hormones already so i expect there will be some noticeable physical changes that the DDs will notice especially by the summer.
DNs parents are buying the whole gender ideology and were not open to even tentative discussion on my and DHs part. DN is an adult of course so there isn't much they can do.anyway.
The other message must be someone else, I haven't posted about this before.

It’s probably sadly not an uncommon situation.

Just explain what you believe and what they believe and what to expect.

I'm glad you're back OP. I saw the pile on your last thread and was about to post when it was deleted. I'm really sorry that happened.

You are absolutely right to be concerned.

I'm not in your situation but I have thought about how I would talk to my young child about this and I think I would frame it in terms of religion. Being an Atheist but having family members who do believe in God, for me it's the easiest way to open with "some people believe".

I think that reaches acceptance of different views whilst making it clear that you don't need to believe it too. We can all think different things and are free to disagree.

I can only imagine how difficult this is and I'm not sure if this was right but I would stick to the facts and highlight that your DN will always be female but wants to appear to be male.

I really don't know what I would do about preferred pronouns though. I really couldn't ask my kids to lie like that, not even as a supposed kindness. I would find it blurs the lines and veers from being truthful in general. Kids are so black and white something is either allowed or not, you get in trouble or not.

I agree with PPs about talking to your DN's parents first. Your children are your priority here and you (and they) should not be expected to participate in something you do not agree with but everyone has to negotiate this new path and how you interact as a family.

Oh sorry, this is a very similar scenario to a thread that was deleted earlier this week/at the weekend.

A family member motivated by love and genuine connection would not require small children to have to confuse boundaries around understanding what sex is. Your niece is old enough to understand that. I don't feel I would over explain at all in that scenario. I probably wouldn't say much and would let the family dynamic unfold. The children may notice, but I think they are too young for explanations. Any expectation on behalf of your family that you buy into drama around this is coercive. I would be clear on what your feelings are and speak to the adults to agree to work in the best interests of young children. It highlights the difference in impact between LGB and T on society as a whole. One scenario is live and let live. The other is change your view on reality and that of the next generation. So there is a decision to make about how far you are prepared to do that.

It highlights the difference in impact between LGB and T on society as a whole. One scenario is live and let live. The other is change your view on reality and that of the next generation.

This. I think treating it like a religion (as an ideology pretty much is) is the best bet.

I would leave any explanation for now until you see how things go. If your DN has changed her name, obviously you’re going to have to mention that but personally I wouldn’t mention anything about trans. I don’t think your DC are of an age to understand and might take things as facts which aren’t actually facts.

I’m not sure if we’re allowed to make the anorexia comparison, but it did enter my mind when I read your post..

It’s a difficult situation but I would be concentrating on ensuring my own DC understood both boys and girls could wear what they want and that girls could do ‘boy things’ and vice versa.

As your DN is only 20, I wouldn't necessarily expect her to have the maturity to speak to your children with sensitivity (the sensiitivity that you are showing for example), 'her truth' may be that she is and always has been male. She might not frame it as 'I believe that...'. Again the comparison to religion holds, as religious family members have been known to present their views as facts.
So for that reason I'd be cautious about allowing them to discuss this when you're not around.

Thanks. I certainly can't lie to my kids and they are my priority. I also agree that kids are very black and white. From what family members have said I'm pretty sure DD7 will notice as DNs voice has started to break already. I am.just dreading them saying DN you sound like a man and the reply being 'well I am'. Or worse, look DN I've copied your hairstyle as girls can have short hair too
I used to.post occasionally on this board and others but have not for a while. I am so glad I had read about trans issues here however. At least I had started to be very clear with the kids from a very early age that vulvas eggs and reproduction are what make you girls and thats the only thing that makes you girls so everything else is open to them in terms of toys and dress.
I am sorry, I feel I am drip feeding a bit. So the other worries are my work could be at risk if they knew what my stance is and family decide to publicise it all on social media. I am.also wondering if I should delay contact with DN for as long as possible until they are a bit older or whether that would just make it worse.

Would it help if you explained that her autism could be a factor, that trying to be more masculine is helping DN to navigate DN's difficult life, and basically encourage your children to do the decent thing, use the new pronouns and name around her etc.

Obviously also explain DN is a transman, hasn't actually become a man because that's impossible, and basically being trans is fine. Some people use it as a coping mechanism.

I am.also wondering if I should delay contact with DN for as long as possible until they are a bit older or whether that would just make it worse

I don't think that would be fair on anyone if they have an otherwise close relationship. DN might be looking forward to introducing DN's new identity to them? It's a bit thing. She might turn against you if you prevent your children from meeting up.

^ oh bugger rogue "she" in there. Typo!

I'm just kindly pointing up the coercion illustrated in your sentence here:

worries are my work could be at risk if they knew what my stance is and family decide to publicise it all on social media

If this is really where we all accept that we are, then isn't it really a terrible, terrible, situation? How can any of us be sanguine with that? I say that as someone who has just quit her job over this issue. I know it is not easy. But none of us can deny that this is not having a devastating impact upon women and children any more. Not that any of us are. Just really writing that down, to be clear to myself.

I think your kids are old enough to discuss the matter, but I'd leave it till closer to actually seeing dn.

I think I would say that dn has decided to make some changes to how she looks and is using a new name.

That it might seem confusing when the family sees dn again, because some of those changes are because dn has decided she wants to think of herself as a boy. So her voice might sound deeper and she might have hair on her face from those changes she's made.

No, she isn't a man - people can't change their sex - but this is how she wants to look at the moment. No, you're not sure why, but people do sometimes like to change their name and the way they look.

Emphasise that you'll all try to remember her new name, because that's polite, but it's OK if they forget - they won't get in trouble from you or their Dad. Empathise if needed that yes, it is confusing, but their cousin is still their cousin, that hasn't changed.

Refocus on non-gender parts of the visit, but let the kids know you're happy to help all about it again if they have questions.

It's ok if they ask questions of you you're not sure how to answer. Tell them it's complicated, you'll think about the best answer and let them know.

I think this conversation will be simpler, in the end, than the visit itself - not because of the kids, but because of the hyperfocus the other family is currently experiencing re gender.

10:18JoodyBlue

Regarding the post above about DN looking foward to introducing her identity, I would repeat that any family that has each other's interests at heart would understand the need to not confuse small children about sexual boundaries

Eh?
Do you think being trans means you're going to molest kids or something?

Introducing a transman to your children => confused sexual boundaries is a tad err...

OP can simply introduce their much lived relative with an explanation one of which I have provided above and no one should be bothered particularly.

^much loved relative that should be

Dn is 20. Her cousins are 5 and 7.

Dn actually has some responsibility here for understanding that this is likely to be a mixed bag of feelings/reactions on the part of small children, and that it's not all about her needs or excited desire to introduce her new identity.

Someone adult enough to transition is adult enough to realise small children can't be told to process such a massive change in any particular manner, and I would hope would be understanding and non-coercive of the cousins' feelings.

Dd7 at least is likely to feel confused and quite possibly, betrayed by the 'not a girl's insistence of someone she thinks of as a same sex role model.