Totally ridiculous and really damaging

[jennytogether]

I was reading an interview with Minnie Driver in the guardian yesterday where she describes having to be dug a hole to stand in to kiss her on screen love interest so that he is taller than her. And it struck me that this is so totally ridiculous...

As a woman who is 5ft11, and who was 5ft11 aged 13, I ‘knew’ that being tall was not feminine or attractive, (without being super skinny supermodel territory) and I guess I’m working out that it was because it wasn’t allowed to be visible. I can’t believe that directors would go to this much effort without critically thinking, perhaps our audience is ready for a taller woman and shorter man? Perhaps they are intelligent enough to understand that love between this type of couple is possible!!

It makes me annoyed that something so superficial is so standardised. Can anyone think of any films where the male lead is shorter than the female? Or is still no one daring to think this obstacle could be overcome?

It makes me angry that I’m realising that so much of my insecurity probably stems from something as ridiculous as this. This must go for shorter men too.

It is not just height though, is the female lead ever older than their love interest without that being a key part of the plot?Generally the age gap is such that the man is decades older than the woman. The film industries view of women and especially female beauty is incredibly narrow.

Reminds me of Monty Python’s Scott of the Antarctic. They knew, even then.
(Clip of actor on boxes in a trench)
getyarn.io/yarn-clip/cce499be-0734-4578-bbff-d9c1edd9b167

@Tibtom

It is not just height though, is the female lead ever older than their love interest without that being a key part of the plot?Generally the age gap is such that the man is decades older than the woman. The film industries view of women and especially female beauty is incredibly narrow.

And conversely I think someone made a list of films where the actress playing the mum is only a few years older than the actor who plays her son in real life. E.g. Angelina Jolie and Colin Firth in Alexander.

I always thought it was so that in profile a kiss between a shorter woman and taller man, the woman’s profile looks better.

Colin Farrell born 1976. Angelina born 1975.

@toffeebutterpopcorn I didn’t know this.. and it make sense... but asks a lot more questions about why we think a tilted up profile is more beautiful. There’s something a bit gross about the whole male dominance thing - height, and age and power. Something you really have to fight to see past as you grow up and realise relationships are about mutual partnerships. Sucky messages for girls and boys in all cases really.

@OneEpisode say what???! God.

Any good examples of films that fight these stereotypes? I feel the need to buy some to put my money where my politics are!!

I’d have a massive double chin if I was kissing someone much shorter!

Ryan Gosling born 1980 matched with Eva Mendes born 1974 in The Place Beyond The Pines. (I am cheating because she played to character as a young and older woman in the movie, but they are a real life couple now).

Only if your chin was facing the camera or in shot.
I used to know a burned out old hippy. He laughed about the fact he used to tell women they should cook, because they looked better than him standing in front of the cooker.

Hm. It's perpetuating the norm, I suppose. The ... oh, god, I can't ever do mean/median/average, but the average male is taller than the average female, so its become coded that a taller male is more manly and a smaller woman is more feminine.

Yes, it's bollocks, OP. And leads to difficulties for men and women. I've been utterly astounded at the things people will say to taller women, and the things they will say to shorter men (pats on head, for example).

@toffeebutterpopcorn have a double chin and snog the one you love! That’s my motto!

@ArabellaScott I think I was just surprised at the actual effort to reinforce the non-reality, when I think most people would enjoy a bit more representation? Or maybe I’m wrong and Hollywood is about fantasy... and we sacrifice feeling normal in our everyday lives for the pay off of a little glimpse of fantasy in films!!

I thought it was also interesting that Minnie drivers solution to not standing in a muddy hole was to have them sitting down or something... like not to change the scene by maybe accepting that they’d be similar heights? And that showed me how entrenched it is!

Think I just feel a bit conned and I’m wondering how many scenes I remember (where I also remember feeling large and unfeminine) the actress was actually stood in a hole. I’m going to analyse the walking scenes much more carefully now!

[quote jennytogether]@toffeebutterpopcorn have a double chin and snog the one you love! That’s my motto![/quote]
I suspect if I was a Hollywood starlet that’s the last thing I’d want the camera to see!

Can anyone think of any films where the male lead is shorter than the female?

Hmm...The Hunger Games? Jack Black films where he has a romance? I actually see a lot of couples recently where the man is the same height or shorter than the women. Nearly always younger couples, teens to thirties. I think the audience is ready to see a film with a taller woman, shorter man couple, though Hollywood would doubtless make that the entire focus of the film in a 'can you believe it??' sort of way.

I mean I see a lot of real life couples where the woman is taller.

[quote jennytogether]@OneEpisode say what???! God.

Any good examples of films that fight these stereotypes? I feel the need to buy some to put my money where my politics are!![/quote]
Harold and Maude.

Not the height thing though 🤣

@toffeebutterpopcorn only because every other actress has to have their chin in the sky too! What about the poor double chinned male actors... banished for decades!

Apparently the Hollywood star Alan Ladd stood on a lot of boxes or the female leads were put in trenches, and it all became normalised from there.

The age thing even permeates British soaps. In Eastenders, the Suki actor is only 10 years older in RL than the actor playing her eldest son.

@manatsu hunger games! Yes! Actually I guess her precinct boyfriend/friend was the typical, then she subverted it with Peeter (or whatever his name was). It was unlikely. I liked that.

Amazing how many stunning actresses are paired with alright men too. Male Hollywood writers fantasies probably.

@EveWasReframed amazing how so much starts with an insecure male ego.

Off topic but I googled this and she was in a film with Tom Cruise called 'Dont call my Booker!' Or something. He is notoriously divaish when it comes to his height so I wondered if she was referring to him.

High heels were invented (well, popularised) to boost the ego of a man who thought he should be taller.

I had a boyfriend who was a bit shorter than me and people would take the piss out of us. Made me so angry.

@ArabellaScott

High heels were invented (well, popularised) to boost the ego of a man who thought he should be taller.

Not entirely true. The heels were to enable men to stand up in saddles in order to fight. Though I guess they then discovered the advantages of higher heels.