What am I? Labels for forms

[watertheroses]

I filled in a form recently that didn't ask for 'sex' but 'to which gender identity do you most identify'. I replied 'I don't identify with a gender'.

Having thought on this I wonder what my answer should have been. I am struggling with how to answer these questions as I don't 'identify' with certain gender stereotypes.

What do all the terms mean?

What am I?

That's exactly what I put to that question (I add my sex on the end).

What am I?

You are you. Not believing in someone else's silly labels and groupings doesn't alter your identity.

I've been thinking about this. I wonder if one of the legal feminists would have time to knock up a response we can all use whenever we see this?

There must be a problem with these questions under GDPR, at least.

What that question is actually asking is “Which set of vile sexist dated stereotypes do you accept apply to you?”
And there should be an option of “neither”. Which every sane person should tick.

@FlyPassed

I've been thinking about this. I wonder if one of the legal feminists would have time to knock up a response we can all use whenever we see this?

There must be a problem with these questions under GDPR, at least.

That would be helpful. It's one of those useful scaled pieces of everday feminism to be mildly disruptive about forms and GDPR.

It would be good if FPFW or such might source and promote a form of words.

Having lots of responses in different words can be helpful though, IMO as it means lots of different people think this. Guidance on what you could put is also helpful for those who need help.

I am Female, gender is a belief system

'To which gender identity do you most identify?'
Just write N/A and move on. Nobody cares.

@ListeningQuietly

I am Female, gender is a belief system

I can’t think of many forms where it’s in any way relevant how you ‘feel’. Sex may be relevant. Gender rarely if ever.

What are you? Under current orthodoxy, you are what you feel you are and your personal choice of label and identity is yours alone to define.

This obviously can't apply to some people and not to others, can it? Because that would be ridiculous.

So yes, it's obviously unacceptable to expect that you define yourself according to views and rigid definitions that you may not yourself hold or identify with. That's about as offensive as saying 'which kind of Christian are you' and presenting you with the choice of Catholic, Anglican, Methodist or Baptist, with no other choice of other faith or of stating that you do not hold a faith.

Until forms and those presenting them get their act sorted out, it's a case of continually reminding them: some people require definitions outside of this political set, and a common one is having a sex which is female, and not having a gender identity, and not appreciating compelled participation in a political position not held.

I'd suggest making documents that ask for your gender as closely to your sex. Although they aren't the same thing, while you are still figuring out your gender it's the best way to address these situations. Plus I'd certainly recommend you reach out to a support network or charity to help. There are usually local organizations that can give life advice and maybe give some therapy on understanding you questioning your gender. I wish you all the best 🤍

I don't think the OP is questioning her gender.

@BoeotianNightmare

I don't think the OP is questioning her gender.

Oh, if not then my apologies. Being who you are with or without a gender is valid 🤍

I had this recently. It was an online form and asked the same as the census "is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?" Yes no answer and compulsory question but there was a free text box for "if no then what gender do you identify as". I have do many issues with this! Gender and sex are not the same so the question is a nonsense. I put no ( since I had to choose yes or no) and then wrote "I don't have a gender identity". Of course 99 percent of people will just answer yes and not realise they are being forced to conform to a belief system they have no adherence to.

ASugarr
Thank you for your help.

It's not a question about sex.
It's a question asking to which gender I identify. Since I would have liked gender stereotypes to have been a thing of the past it's a question I am uncomfortable answering.

@watertheroses

ASugarr Thank you for your help.

It's not a question about sex.
It's a question asking to which gender I identify. Since I would have liked gender stereotypes to have been a thing of the past it's a question I am uncomfortable answering.

That's okay. I totally understand.

It can be quite confusing as society has lead us to believe that our gender expression has to match our sex or gender identity which is false and is something many are actively getting rid of. But whatever your story may be, just know its totally normal to feel this way. There's many people out there who feel the same way and have explored this in various ways. But being yourself as you are is also enough and I wish you the best 🤍

Some people born female identify as having a male gender identity. Trans men take testosterone to change their sex characteristics, so they can grow facial hair and have a deep broken voice. They want a flat chest with no breasts.

That’s nothing to do with stereotypes of culture, they are aspects of sex.

You can’t just erase transsexuals from the narrative.

You can’t just erase transsexuals from the narrative.
Nobody is erasing them.
Merely pointing out that people born female will always be female.
They can dress and act however they like
but their cells will always be female
when it comes to things like health care.

@Anovaneway

Some people born female identify as having a male gender identity. Trans men take testosterone to change their sex characteristics, so they can grow facial hair and have a deep broken voice. They want a flat chest with no breasts.

That’s nothing to do with stereotypes of culture, they are aspects of sex.

You can’t just erase transsexuals from the narrative.

You realize not every trans man does those things right? Not everyone associates gender with sex because they aren't the same.

You realize not every trans man does those things right? Not everyone associates gender with sex because they aren't the same

Yes, there is a transman on rupauls drag race at the moment who said he struggled originally because (according to him) trans culture means you have to be very macho as a transman or very feminine as a transwoman and he is a very feminine man

I recently stopped using Harts of Stur because they asked me to update my details & fill in my gender.

Nobody needs to know the sex or gender (if you believe in them which I do not) of the person buying a new kitchen item so what it has to do with a new kettle or a cake slice I don't know.

It's intrusive & I thought companies were supposed to practice data minimisation not ask for more & more info.

@Snugglepumpkin

I recently stopped using Harts of Stur because they asked me to update my details & fill in my gender.

Nobody needs to know the sex or gender (if you believe in them which I do not) of the person buying a new kitchen item so what it has to do with a new kettle or a cake slice I don't know.

It's intrusive & I thought companies were supposed to practice data minimisation not ask for more & more info.

Bum

I was going to order a cake tin from them...i agree that its none of their business

(Probably will still buy the cake tin...)

"is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?"

I had one recently which was really odd. I can't remember the exact wording but it was something along those lines but the only options were "yes" or "not applicable". There was no "prefer not to answer" option.

How on gods green earth can this be relevant of you want to buy a teapot, have your teeth capped or book a theatre ticket?

2/4/21 The Scotsman, "Doctors must learn to distinguish between sex and gender, top Scottish medics warn
Doctors confusing sex and gender are putting patients’ treatment at risk, a group of senior medical researchers has warned.
(extract)
A team led by St Andrews University has said that doctors often fail to distinguish between the two, which can make treatment for some patients ineffective or inappropriate.

In an article published in the British Medical Journal on Friday, the authors argue that the distinction is “critical” for good healthcare, and failing to account for it can lead to “errors” which can negatively affect all patients.

A distinction between sex and gender is made by the World Health Organisation, with sex relating to biology and gender to societal roles, but the researchers say that current medical practice often uses the two terms interchangeably.

“There are many instances of sex and gender being confused by the research community and society more broadly,” said Dr Margaret McCartney, of the School of Medicine at St Andrews University.

“Unless we identify and count categories correctly, we will end up with errors which serves all populations poorly, including minority populations.”

Professor Susan Bewley, Emeritus Professor (honorary) in Obstetrics and Women’s Health at King’s College London, said the differentiation is important for all patients’ healthcare.

“Medical care requires an understanding of the difference between sex and gender categories; untangling them is crucial for safe, dignified, and effective healthcare of all groups,” she said.

“Avoidable harm may result when they are conflated – for example, if sex specific laboratory reference ranges are used for people whose gender is recorded but not their biological sex or hormone prescription.”

The World Health Organisation provides a distinct meaning for each term, stating: “Gender is used to describe the characteristics of women and men that are socially constructed, while sex refers to those that are biologically determined.”

The article adds: “Sex and gender are not synonymous. Sex, unless otherwise specified, relates to biology: the gametes, chromosomes, hormones, and reproductive organs.

"Gender relates to societal roles, behaviours, and expectations that vary with time and place, historically and geographically.

"These categories describe different attributes that must be considered depending on the purpose they are intended for."

www.scotsman.com/health/doctors-must-learn-to-distinguish-between-sex-and-gender-top-scottish-medics-warn-3187822

current thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4209628-Stop-mixing-up-sex-and-gender-GPs-told

I identify as not having a gender as it is a social construct damaging to all.

If I have room that's what I put.