Hadley Freeman: My sons ask if a man has ever hurt me. Not really, I lie

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

A recent YouGov survey found that 86% of women aged 18-24 in the UK have been sexually harassed. This statistic shocked me: did the other 14% not understand the question? To live in fear of harassment or assault is such a universal female experience that many of us don’t even think about it, having learned to accept it from an absurdly early age. It doesn’t break you but it shapes you, like a rock face getting battered by strong waves. This is my own story, in 10 parts.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/mar/27/my-sons-ask-if-a-man-has-ever-hurt-me-not-really-i-lie-hadley-freeman

Well, maybe the other 14% didn't have any of that. I certainly haven't.

I was catcalled a few times in my late teens, and a couple of stupid boys made disgusting remarks when we were all about thirteen. Does this count? Given the high percentage always quoted, I've been assuming that it does, but maybe it doesn't.

That's actually a really crushing read.
Hadley

Also, if you're going to involve your small children in this sort of thing at all, you need to answer truthfully. It's far too easy for men and boys to think "the other sort of men do this", and knowing that the women they know have experienced it will make it closer.

I read it this morning and, tbh, it made me do my own list. We all have them.

Yes, crushing is a good word for it 💔

I think she could have and should have provided a better answer than that to her boys.

@ceilingsand

I read it this morning and, tbh, it made me do my own list. We all have them.

I inadvertently ended up with a list when completely Jessica Eaton-Taylor's survey. (I wish I'd kept my answers but in a way I was so horrified at my responses that it didn't occur to me. I'd never gone through things chronologically before.)

I ended up horrified at a list of harassment that included what were plainly crimes that were just taken for granted by everybody - including me, from very young age and up.

And one of the interesting reflections that I ended up with was that one of the senior staff in a workplace stalked me at a time when stalking wasn't a crime. The stalking was horrendous - but it probably only counts as harassment because he was using his senior position to get access to my contact details, even when I changed them. So, I didn't include this and still don't know if I should if asked to fill out a similar survey.

My own list would be a lot worse than that, but then I imagine she has only put down a few incidences.
I don’t know any women who wouldn’t have multiple things to list. I have friends who have had shocking treatment by medical staff, and who have been harassed by employers (an old boss of mine once crept up to me and kissed me on the back of my neck as I was working, late in the evening with nobody else there). My list would be a mix of men I knew, and total strangers. It is enough to make me lie awake some nights, fearing for my daughters.

Daniel Sloss:

When one in ten men is shit and the other nine do nothing, we may as well not be there…Instead of having this hero complex like 'I'm going to beat up a rapist'…[just] prevent one, stop one…Were there signs in my friend's behaviour towards women that I ignored? Yes. And then he raped my friend. That's on me until the day I die.

For some reason the original tweet has gone - but there's a decent discussion here:

laptrinhx.com/a-scottish-comedian-s-video-on-male-accountability-has-gone-viral-after-sarah-everard-s-murder-2305717107/

And I can't find the thread with the tweets from women who recounted being walked home 'for safety' from the pub by male friends whom they later discovered:
*in one case, murdered a sex worker several days later;
*in another, the local rapist he was protecting her from was revealed to be him.

Hadley.

I read this article earlier.

And it absolutely underlined for me the scale of minimising that goes on of very serious incidents.

From my own experience it was ingrained in me to think of things as an unfortunate one off, or my faulty perception, or an over-reaction, because, well, that's what women and girls do.

Not rocking the boat became a bit of a mantra, along with shouldering the responsibility of making things worse, which would do me no favours and negatively impact people around me.

Oh, it all stays there though doesn't it, subtly influencing our behaviour, our relationships, our ability to advocate for ourselves without being called "hysterical".

And when you do try to assert your boundaries, as a human being entitled to them regardless of sex, out come the accusations of misandry, NAMALT, and extremism.

It sticks in my craw.

Beyond catcalling, I genuinely can't remember being sexually harassed or assaulted. And then I read the article and remembered the time an ex stalked me for months, travelling for hours to ambush me on the way home from work after I refused to talk to him, pretending to be a woman on an internet forum to try to persuade me to go back out with him, sending flowers to my work, emailing my parents, crying and threatening suicide unless I went back out with him. Yeah. Hadn't even considered that whole sorry debacle.

All horribly familiar. Why aren’t we seeing more items from men saying, yes I did that, me and my friends did that?

I personally don't think I have ever met a woman who hasn't experienced similar to that list. It's an excellent piece.

@OppsUpsSide

I think she could have and should have provided a better answer than that to her boys.

Her children are still very young. I believe they're far too young to know the term 'rape', for example. We have a duty to protect children from the worst of things until they're old enough to handle what they're hearing.

for Hadley.

@Thecatonthemat

All horribly familiar. Why aren’t we seeing more items from men saying, yes I did that, me and my friends did that?

Wouldn't a Truth and Reconciliation along these lines be amazing?

I remember I was once walking down Kelvingrove Park in the morning on my way to an exam. On the way, a group of young men surrounded me, barracking me and jostling in a vague attempt to get me to fall in what was an isolated area.

The sense of danger was palpable and it would have taken nothing for that to have turned into a serious assault.

I had to maintain my pace, not catch their eyes, and somehow scan for something - anything I could do.

I've often wondered if they remember that. If so - do they recall it with bravura or shame?

Wouldn't a Truth and Reconciliation along these lines be amazing?

You’d like to think so, but apparently some men actually get off on such testimonies.

Those on this thread who thought they hadn't (bar a stalking incident and catcalling/obscene comments- which I would count), have you never had your bum pinched or slapped? Never had someone standing too close on the bus, breathing down your neck?

I filled in that detailed questionnaire posted by Dr Jessica Taylor. Thought carefully about all the instances of abuse, insults, assault, rape, violence, inappropriate comments, catcalls, etc in my 40 odd years on the planet.

I wanted to offer all the data I could, but to be honest there was so much I just didn't even bother putting in or remember, it would take too long.

For instance - I just this morning recalled a man on the tube in London who pressed up against me. When I got out at the station, I realised he had done something all over my skirt - I didn't have the words or understanding for what it was. I was about 10 or 11.

Yes, these things are so par for the course it doesn't even merit more than a mental shrug for me. When I think about it in relation to my own children, though, fucking hell.

God, I did my own list a few years ago when I was following the Harvey Weinstein case. If you had asked me previously, I'd have said I wasn't a victim and laughed off many of them, dismissing or minimising them because they didn't end in rape. It was only when I actually looked at them, 22 incidents and close calls in black and white that I thought fucking hell, what did I accept as 'just one of those things' thinking I was 'lucky' nothing worse had happened?

I've just seen this unnerving thread - but more than ever, I wonder about the story that these men/perpetrators tell themselves and others.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4203804-do-men-know-this-is-creepy

I do wonder if those young men now have daughters who've had similar experiences (both my account and the 'creepy' thread) and how they respond to it?

I feel so stupid for not shouting! Paedo! Out to a catcalling from a car when walking my 10 year old to ballet!

I felt double stupid when I say to my daughter, don’t worry they stupid people that can’t find any other way to say they like you!

I could not live with myself for a while and a few years later I apologise to my daughter for my incompetent answer. At the time I didn’t want her to be scared or self conscious about wearing whatever she liked (leggings and boots on that ocasión). I felt so inadequate as a mother, a feminist and a woman for not having the wits to shout back at them!

Powerful piece. Thank you, Hadley.

@Terranean

It's a terrible bind to be in, especially in such a scenario.

First priority is protect your child - so responding in kind is not an option really - no-one should start slanging matches on the street which is effectively what twat in car was potentially doing. Not wanting to create a drama and all of those things we do to try and get out of any volatile situation even when it leaves you on the backfoot...... knowing that if you'd shouted back there was nothing to stop him being fuelled by rage, following you, hurling insults etc. Scary for your DD.

And we're the ones having to apologise to each other as women because we allegedly aren't doing enough ....... the current push towards getting men to sort their own shit out between themselves first and foremost is critical I feel.

@picklemewalnuts

Those on this thread who thought they hadn't (bar a stalking incident and catcalling/obscene comments- which I would count), have you never had your bum pinched or slapped? Never had someone standing too close on the bus, breathing down your neck?

I'm actually starting to think I may have blanked out all of those kinds of things. I remember boys at school pinging bra straps. I don't think someone's ever grabbed me inappropriately in public, but it's possible I just put it out of my mind. I remember a particularly dodgy guy on a late tube once. It wasn't sexual but it was a very intimidating situation. I frequently feel wary of men and their regard. I've perfected a fairly intimidating glare over the years that tends to see off a lot of them.