British Cycling Consultation on Transgender Policy

[lorisparkle]

Thought this might be of interest

www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20201009-British-Cycling-publishes-Transgender-and-Non-Binary-Participation-policy-0

A) Have you actually seen pictures of Rachel McKinnon (now Veronica Ivy) on the podium standing next to the female competitors? Are you seriously telling me that McKinnon/Ivy has no physical advantage over the female competitors other than testosterone? Really?

B) The argument that sometimes a female athlete may beat a male-born athlete from time to time is neither here nor there. Should we allow mediocre athletes to take performance enhancing drugs on the basis that an excellent athlete may be able to beat them without having to take drugs?

Ah, the good old "women would win if they tried harder argument". Remind me, who was who it used it so well?

@EdgeOfACoin

A) Have you actually seen pictures of Rachel McKinnon (now Veronica Ivy) on the podium standing next to the female competitors? Are you seriously telling me that McKinnon/Ivy has no physical advantage over the female competitors other than testosterone? Really?

B) The argument that sometimes a female athlete may beat a male-born athlete from time to time is neither here nor there. Should we allow mediocre athletes to take performance enhancing drugs on the basis that an excellent athlete may be able to beat them without having to take drugs?

Yes and it’s always the same pic used to bash her with on the podium and look at different pics of her against other women competitors and there isn’t much of a difference tbh. At that point on that photo it’s clear she is carrying extra weight and that isn’t to her benefit. I don’t like or dislike Ms McKinnon and basing any dislike purely because she has won a track cycling event and she is trans isn’t grounds enough to base any dislike. And it’s using Ms McKinnon’s win as some sort of fear basing poster person for spreading irrational fear that the trans women are coming for medals doesn’t work either and I disagree with that.

@Binglebong

Ah, the good old "women would win if they tried harder argument". Remind me, who was who it used it so well?

Why remind you ? your using it yourself and hardly adding to the debate with such a pointless remark Move along please

What qualifies McKinnon to race in the women’s category?

What about the hundreds and hundreds of women and girls who have been disadvantaged by males in their sport?

But how would they know who is trans or non-binary?

Tbh I think McKinnon says enough on Twitter for people to dislike her without her having to be trans in women sport.

Yes you did read my post correctly, I don’t think this can be used as one size fits all reasoning in claiming that she was born male and that’s the reason why she won I just don’t agree with it.
If that is the case then other cyclists would always lose against male competitors.
Nicole Cooke in her cycling career competed against male riders and beat them how is that correct if all women can do against men is lose, just because of their birth of being male.

Using Ms McKinnon’s win is easy as this go to example but this doesn’t say much about the losing of the other 2 competitors.
If her testosterone levels were higher and not in line with regulations then that’s a question for the UCI and British cycling to answer.

Can you specify which elite races where Nicole Cooke competed against men? The significant races that I can see that Nicole competed in throughout her rather impressive career are all women's events. If you are talking about a world class female cyclist competing against hobbyist males, then I am not surprised that she beat them.

McKinnon won the Womens 200m sprint in 12.506 seconds.

Mens 200m sprint winner was 11.055 seconds

Mens 200m bronze was 11.698 seconds.

McKinnon would not have had a sniff of a medal if competing in the Men's race.

Apart from the fact that we have repeated a number of times that testosterone levels have very little impact on performance so are irrelevant in this situation, the IOC has inexplicably set permitted levels that are significantly over that of any normal female range - it is not based in any science and is not relevant. McKinnon may have been competing within the rules but that doesn't change the fact that the rules are completely unjust.

Athletes at championship level are competing to see who is the best of the best. There is a range of female competitors from best to worst and there is a range of male competitors from best to worst. Depending on the discipline there is likely to be some overlap between the best female and the worst male.

However, the best male in most sports is significantly better than the best female. That is why we have sex segregated sports.

McKinnon's performance is mediocre at best when competing against male athletes. When McKinnon competes against female athletes, the performance miraculously becomes world beating - what do you think the cause of the monumental improvement in relative performance might be?

Normally if any athlete at elite level experienced such a meteoric rise in success, the authorities would be asking questions and doing drug tests.

@Jobsharenightmare

I can't see when the consultation opens OP? The preview version is still showing so although it can be completed it doesn't save the data.

here's the active survey link

And it’s using Ms McKinnon’s win as some sort of fear basing poster person for spreading irrational fear that the trans women are coming for medals doesn’t work either and I disagree with that.

Well, in one way you are right. It doesn’t matter if the person who has had the benefit of male puberty wins or not. Simply competing potentially means a female who had not had that benefit or the benefit of testosterone (ie a transman) may miss out.

And you are also missing the sexist discrimination element of historical opportunities of many of these males if they have been active in the sport. Opportunities from childhood that may have been offered to the boys and not the girls. Better quality coaching is just one aspect.

This is in no way about simply winning medals. It is about taking the opportunities meant to encourage, to recognise females to reach the peak of their sport. Or even just to participate.

And for as long as they can. There is also much to say about age here too. Like the activist who plays women’s rugby as a 50+ transwoman (who has also had a prior career in elite sports) but refuses to acknowledge that no other women of that age can still play with the teenaged through to early 30s women they play with. Of course, they also never acknowledge they don’t experience menopause and have never had to adjust their elite sports training for menstrual cycles. That is just the start. As a 50 + year old who had an interest in rugby all their life, they also had training as a boy even just at school when girls were not allowed. Yet, everytime that person is on the field, a female is not playing who could be playing. Who could be getting the experience needed to go further if they want to.

This isn’t just about winning. This isn’t just about medals.

Either you think it's fine to deprive women of chances to participate in women's sport to accommodate men's feelings or you dont

I dont

Mckinnon, Bridges, Hubbard et al could all compete in men's sports, they choose not too. The women they are pushing out do not have that choice.

It is actually that cut and dried kit.

If winning wasn’t their aim, why not compete with their sex. Unless it is driven by another objective that is.

I will be interested to see how this all pans out (for women's sports) as lockdown eases and the various sporting activities start again.

With all the recent publicity and draft policies being put forward by the sporting bodies, will we see an increased in the number of athletes wishing to participate in the opposite sex category? There is also the knotty issue of doping where some policies are allowing consideration of transmen to compete with women when they have been taking testosterone.

I would hope that taking performance enhancing drugs would be against the rules in any sporting activity so why are they considering allowing it for transpeople? It is utterly bizarre.

Why remind you ? your using it yourself and hardly adding to the debate with such a pointless remark
Move along please

Er, no.

It will take a transgender woman to win the women’s Wimbledon tennis before people realise what will happen. Didn’t Serena Williams once say that the top 100 men can beat her at tennis. It will just take one of these 100.

Both Serena and her sister Venus were trounced by a male player ranked 203. I think Serena managed to win just one game.

Well there we go then. 203 male tennis players can beat the woman’s top Wimbledon player. It will not take long for someone to look at that prize money and sponsorship.

There is also a large difference in serve speed between top men and top women, even when women are over 6 foot tall.. I wonder why?

The gold, silver and bronze medals at Rio for the Women's 800m were won by individuals with XY chromosomes. It's easy to overestimate how much people care about women's sports, but I always optimistic I'll be proven wrong.

I've done it. This issue makes me angry. It has taken years to get sporting organisations and the media to take women in sport and women's sport seriously and now all that work is being undone by the desire to redefine what a woman is so we're back to being ignored again whilst people with Y chromosomes get all the attention and medals.

The fact this comes just when women's sport is finally getting more of the coverage, sponsorship etc it deserves.

The fact it's just changed across the board in a handful of years. And then women are left being told to PROVE what everyone knows IE that we are physiologically different to men. Is a brilliant example if just how deep seated misogyny is. Just an off off the scale fuck you to every woman on the planet. All of it is.

Xposts.

I used to hold the women's world records for 3000 metres steeplechase, 10,000 metres and half marathon.

Unfortunately it didn't count as I'm a man :)

@AlecTrevelyan006

I used to hold the women's world records for 3000 metres steeplechase, 10,000 metres and half marathon.

Unfortunately it didn't count as I'm a man :)

So how did you rank, as a man?