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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Triggernometry: Are Women Safe On Our Streets? With Emma Web & Ella Whelan

32 replies

SunsetBeetch · 21/03/2021 21:24

An interesting watch.

OP posts:
ShoppingWomble · 21/03/2021 21:56

Wish they'd get Julie Bindel on. Or Karen Ingala Smith.

Funny that they only seem to have women under 35 on... Can't think why....

SunsetBeetch · 22/03/2021 07:29

Oh yeah that would be amazing.

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Snoozysnoozy · 22/03/2021 07:52

Funny that they only seem to have women under 35 on... Can't think why....

They have, you just haven't looked hard hard enough.

EdgeOfACoin · 22/03/2021 07:57

They had Abigail Shrier on not long ago.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 22/03/2021 08:44

I find Ella Whelan misguided on the subject of feminism and she has argued some strange things more generally, so I find myself getting very frustrated when I listen to her/read her articles. Don't know anything about Emma Web though, so will be interested to hear what she has to say.

I really enjoyed their Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Helen Dale and, paricularly, Inaya Folarin Iman interviews. Abigail Shrier always speaks well and Jodi Shaw was interesting recently. Actually, all are interesting. I love the fact that long form interviews humanize people.

NutellaEllaElla · 22/03/2021 08:50

@ShoppingWomble

Wish they'd get Julie Bindel on. Or Karen Ingala Smith.

Funny that they only seem to have women under 35 on... Can't think why....

Quick to criticise. Do you actually listen to this podcast? I do. They have women on and while I don't know all their date of birth, many are over 35 and all are clearly adult women with something interesting to say.
PaleBlueMoonlight · 22/03/2021 08:56

They really do have interesting people. Melanie Phillips was also fascinating. She has some really confronting views.

Imnobody4 · 22/03/2021 09:21

Ella Whelanwas on the Big Question on Sunday. She was allowed to completely dominate, while Dr Jessica Taylor was only allowed a few words, don't think I could bear listening to her again. I'm sick to death of mouthy journalists. But if anyone watches it, let me know if Emma Webb is any good and I might brave it. Just looked her up - suspect I'll need some persuasion.

Triggerpod · 22/03/2021 10:42

@ShoppingWomble

Wish they'd get Julie Bindel on. Or Karen Ingala Smith.

Funny that they only seem to have women under 35 on... Can't think why....

Claire Fox (twice) Melanie Phillips Abigail Shrier Jodi Shaw Ayaan Hirsi Ali Helen Pluckrose (twice) Maryam Namazie Dr Ella Hill Keri Smith Megyn Kelly Dr Linda Papadopoulos Julia Hartley-Brewer Helen Dale (twice) Iona Italia Dr Pippa Malmgren (three times) Katherine Birbalsingh (three times) Posie Parker Dr Joanna Williams Dr Linda Yueh Jess Butcher and Lionel Shriver

will all be delighted to hear how you they look on camera 😂

Triggerpod · 22/03/2021 10:43

young*

ShoppingWomble · 22/03/2021 10:47

Quick to criticise. Do you actually listen to this podcast? I do. They have women on and while I don't know all their date of birth, many are over 35 and all are clearly adult women with something interesting to say.

Yeah I do. And I've given them money. I've enjoyed many of their interviews (been watching since they had Kellie Jay Keen/ Posie Parker on, as have many people on here, I think).

Still frustrated that they don't have nearly as many women as men and that when they do, so often it's younger women chosen I suspect partly for their attractiveness as well as their opinions. I respect any woman who goes on their show just for turning up, as they must know what "bantz" (borderline abuse plus hilarious japes about their appearance/ if they're shaggable) they'll get from the livechat plus a few sniggers and winks from KK and FF afterwards. It's all in good fun ladies, don't be so touchy, where's your sense of humour? Oh and give us a smile, love.

I do respect KK and FF for some of the stuff they do - they've created an interesting, funny unique podcast with a diverse, amusing community. But they have a huge blind spot when it comes to sexism. I think KK is trying to ask some questions about this - he's asked several people about how men and women can get along together without just throwing insults at each other about sexism. I want to hear more about this. FF is just there for the bantz and trying to make up for the awkwardness he feels by deliberately being "edgy" (old-fashioned sexism done ironically, as in Nuts and Zoo magazines).

You are right, they do have older women on sometimes but not often compared to the amount of older men they have on. And especially on this subject. Watching this interview was like watching a double date. Shame the two women had such similar names as it made things confusing (even for KK). Woman on left in dress (Emma?) was annoyingly giggly and didn't make many good points. Lots of complaining about awful "feminists" with no explanation of what she meant by the word (has a lot of different applications). I had more respect for Ella (in black top) but often disagreed with her, although at least she made the point that the "6pm curfew for men" was meant as a pointed joke - so many people deliberately misunderstanding that. Getting two guests on doesn't work so well as each doesn't get long enough to explain their ideas. It all feels a bit like a pub chat rather than an interview. And of course the livechat was full of "phwoar, I would!" type comments which strangely their male guests don't seem to get nearly so much (apart from Douglas Murray!)

Anyway, I said I really wish they'd interview some more older women about sexism/ male violence because they could bring a lifetime of experience and professional research, including how sexism changes as you get older and/or have children. I didn't feel the two women had much experience to draw on or examples to give and it was a wasted opportunity to have a really important and relevant discussion. Felt a bit like a sop to the male half (three-quarters?) of the audience to get some "young fit birds" who will agree that feminism is awful and they love men - all a bit "cool girl". And if the biggest problem you have as a woman is driving restrictions in central London then I don't think you're really speaking for many other women out there...

I want some older women to talk seriously about online porn, the sex industry, surrogacy etc and to tell KK and FF a few things they don't know, as Posie did in her talk (which was fab!) Just really disappointed that this was a wasted opportunity as I want to hear more of these conversations. I also want them to get some men on who are doing useful work about male violence (Jackson Katz etc).

Didn't have time to say all this last night hence my snippy dismissal!

Imnobody4 · 22/03/2021 11:18

Watching this interview was like watching a double date. Shame the two women had such similar names as it made things confusing (even for KK). Woman on left in dress (Emma?) was annoyingly giggly and didn't make many good points. Lots of complaining about awful "feminists" with no explanation of what she meant by the word (has a lot of different applications). I had more respect for Ella (in black top) but often disagreed with her, although at least she made the point that the "6pm curfew for men" was meant as a pointed joke - so many people deliberately misunderstanding that. Getting two guests on doesn't work so well as each doesn't get long enough to explain their ideas. It all feels a bit like a pub chat rather than an interview. And of course the livechat was full of "phwoar, I would!" type comments which strangely their male guests don't seem to get nearly so much (apart from Douglas Murray!)

Thanks, I'll give it a miss. I do like some of their videos though.

SunsetBeetch · 22/03/2021 16:59

@Triggerpod

young*
Mic. Drop.
OP posts:
nauticant · 22/03/2021 17:28

Having attacked on the basis of a false accusation of age, "the female guests are all under 35", ShoppingWomble and been shown to be wrong, you're now reaching for other pretexts to attack and this time it's, well, it's everything plus the kitchen sink.

Your account of this channel is highly exaggerated and misleading. I write that as someone who finds plenty to criticise on the channel.

TinyTroubleMaker · 22/03/2021 18:06

I wouldn't say they need more women. More of Douglas Murray in tight trousers would suffice... Grin

ShoppingWomble · 22/03/2021 20:33

Having attacked on the basis of a false accusation of age, "the female guests are all under 35", ShoppingWomble and been shown to be wrong, you're now reaching for other pretexts to attack and this time it's, well, it's everything plus the kitchen sink.

Your account of this channel is highly exaggerated and misleading. I write that as someone who finds plenty to criticise on the channel.

Bit harsh, I think nauticant. I should have hedged my bets more with the first post and put something like "Funny they so often put women under 35 on as compared with most of the men who are generally older, especially when they are specifically talking about women's rights". But it's a bit wordy and I was writing in a hurry and frustrated from watching the interview which I'd been looking forward to and was disappointed by.

My second post was more considered and I think you must've misread it if you think it's full of "pretexts" and is "exaggerated and misleading". It's an honest account of the episode and my opinions of the channel in general - which I do like, that's why I'm frustrated about their attitudes on this particular topic.

I'd be interested to hear your view of this episode - did you agree with Emma and Ella's points? I found their views not very grounded in reality and very young and London-centric. I'm guessing neither of them have children? I think having kids was a turning point for me in thinking about women's lives and rights, although obviously it's different for everyone.

I think part of my beef is that I'm still frustrated by the episode with Jordan Peterson's daughter - someone who's there because of her famous father. I just feel there's so many interesting women out there and the interviews with women don't always reflect that.

Anyway, my two pence worth. This is why I'm normally a lurker!

NutellaEllaElla · 22/03/2021 20:36

It's ok to have differing opinions @shoppingwomble, I respect your more detailed posts. Don't go back to lurking Smile

ShoppingWomble · 22/03/2021 20:44

Ahh thank you!

nauticant · 22/03/2021 21:03

I didn't get much from the episode with Emma Webb and Ella Whelan ShoppingWomble, like you I felt their perspectives were narrow and focused on supporting their political views in general. One positive was that they did mention in passing what's been going on behind the scenes with Sisters Uncut. This is one of those aspects of this sad story that, I think, the mainstream media aren't so keen on examining and reporting on because they prefer to keep the story as a more straightforward narrative.

I haven't bothered watching the episode with Jordan Peterson's daughter. I've read around her role in promoting her father and I have no interest in spending an hour watching her do her pitch.

One apparent weakness of this channel from our perspective might be its blokey nature and bants. Although I have little time for blokey-ness and bants in general, the fact is the Triggernometry guys have become engaged with important issues that are of interest to us and desperately need wider coverage. As a result, the part of the audience of the channel who are blokey and bants-loving are getting exposed to the issues too. This means that the nature of this channel, while in some respects not to my taste, could actually be a positive. To put this another way, if the issue of gender identity ideology only gets covered by channels and in ways we approve of, then it's not likely to make inroads into general public awareness.

Erkrie · 22/03/2021 21:13

Had a look at Emma Webb's twitter. She's actually quite interesting. I'm not sure she came across so well on trigonometry but I'm definitely not writing her off.

Erkrie · 22/03/2021 21:14

Trigonometry certainly do bring these debates out to a different audience. Which is a good thing.

ShoppingWomble · 22/03/2021 21:17

One apparent weakness of this channel from our perspective might be its blokey nature and bants. Although I have little time for blokey-ness and bants in general, the fact is the Triggernometry guys have become engaged with important issues that are of interest to us and desperately need wider coverage. As a result, the part of the audience of the channel who are blokey and bants-loving are getting exposed to the issues too. This means that the nature of this channel, while in some respects not to my taste, could actually be a positive.

Yes agree especially from a trans rights/ women's rights perspective. But that's why it hurts so much when they talk about women! It just feels like a misogyny onslaught! I know they're trying to trigger everyone and are fairly even-handed but it worries me when some of the listeners don't get the irony, just as I wish Jordan P. would tell his followers to settle down when they get too lechy or "get back in the kitchen woman" -y! (that's not a word).

I really want to see men thinking of some solutions to all the current talk about violence against women and I feel Triggernometry could use their platform to reach some men who need to hear what violence and constant hassle feel like from a female perspective. So when they take the piss it hurts! Hope they can have some more conversations about this.

Thanks for replying Smile

nauticant · 22/03/2021 21:24

You're welcome. And I apologise for being so snippy, you are posting in good faith and I should have engaged more positively.

Sophoclesthefox · 22/03/2021 21:32

I have to say that I’m struggling to reconcile your version of Triggernometry with the one I know, wanda. I’m wondering if the difference is that I listen to it as a podcast, so I don’t see how old the participants are, and I don’t see any BTL comments from viewers either! Wink Also, while I challenge myself to listen to people I wouldn’t normally be interested in, if the interviewee just doesn’t do it for me, I don’t bother - so I’m not cueing up Michalea Peterson or Nigel Farage anytime soon. I haven’t listened to this one yet, but will give it a go.

If you’re on the thread, triggerpod, I will also take the opportunity to say I thoroughly enjoyed Francis’ recent interview with Benjamin Boyce- hearing you talk a bit more at length about your background and thought processes was really interesting and I could have listened to a lot more of it as it was getting down into the weeds of some thorny stuff when you ran out of time Grin

Sophoclesthefox · 22/03/2021 21:33

Sorry, my first paragraph should have tagged shoppingwomble, no idea where Wanda come from?!