Why aren’t parents worried about the effects of hormones on their children.

[Sidewalksue]

3rd person I know has put on FB their daughter is now identifying as male and what a disgrace it is that they can’t access hormones and have to go through puberty.
Not one is going, all this might fuck my children for life, make them infertile, leave them with a catalogue of issues decades down the line. And what if as pre-teens they haven’t made a good decision that they can’t reverse. Maybe it’s a good idea to hang back and wait before filling my children full of unnecessary drugs.
One works in the medical profession and I am bewildered by the lack of thought past this moment in time.
How many children are going to blame their parents for wanting to give in so easily (luckily they do have to wait for hormone treatment).

@Sidewalksue

I think it’s quite easy for a 12 year old to say they never want children, a 32 year old will give a different answer (I did). Adult experience should trump this.

I was adamant (and persistent in that idea all through my childhood) that there was no way I was having children. I’m not sure why I was so certain but I was.

It wasn’t until I met my now dh at 25 that I changed my mind (within a week of meeting we’d talked about kids and everything). 3 dcs later - all is good. I’m not sure my younger self could have been trusted with any major decisions that I hadn’t reached the appropriate life stage for.

It occurs to me that there is such emphasis on teenage girls not getting pregnant (many of my school friends failed in that respect and several left school to have their babies before age 16 (bizarrely it was allowed in this days if you didn’t want to take your exams. Maybe I took all the dire warnings seriously?

Not meaning to derail but I think whether or not you are going to have children in the future is not an age appropriate decision for young people. Therefore as the court found you shouldn’t be allowed to medicate away your fertility.

@Noregrets78 have you joined the Bayswater support group? Helpful and good to know others in the same boat

@oxalisRed yes I'm a member - such a relief to have found them.

The parents of trans children are worried about the effects of hormones on their children. They are also worried about the effects of not transitioning on their children. In some cases they have more reason to worry about the latter than the former and they act accordingly.

@Noregrets78

Would be good to see affected parents more active on the LGBT children board. It's very quiet over there, was the first place I looked for guidance. I certainly didn't realise how much of the support is actually in the feminist area.

I'm scarred by my experience of raising concerns in LGBT parenting groups. I would never, ever raise gender in that setting. For me, it was too traumatic ( the immediate rush to wave away concerns, the immediate insistence DD was and always had been a boy, the framing of concerns as indicative of transphobia, suggestions that I may not be the right person to care for my DD, deluge of fake suicide stats, being told child would disown me on turning 18). And I was a longstanding member of the group, having had an out lesbian DD for years!

No, I couldn't in good faith encourage other mothers to post in LGBT groups with concerns about sudden onset dysphoria.

@Shizuku

The parents of trans children are worried about the effects of hormones on their children. They are also worried about the effects of not transitioning on their children. In some cases they have more reason to worry about the latter than the former and they act accordingly.

I'm not sure they are. Are you a parent?

I think on balance the risks and damage to health from hormone treatment etc will outweigh the challenges of either watchful waiting (recommended as being most effective for approx. 80% of gender questioning children) or psychiatric help to address the whole child.

@Shizuku

The parents of trans children are worried about the effects of hormones on their children. They are also worried about the effects of not transitioning on their children. In some cases they have more reason to worry about the latter than the former and they act accordingly.

What effects are those?

Because I thought being trans was not a mental illness, so it can't be anything to do with the child's mental wellbeing?

If 80% of children who have gender dysphoria resolve it after adolescence, how would a parent prefer to have their child undergo surgery or be put on medication when four fifths of the time this issue doesn't persist? Avenues which may render your child sterile or on medication or with medical problems throughout their life.

I was always careful to try to only give paracetamol or ibuprofen to my offspring while they really needed it to control a fever etc. Stopped as soon as it wasn't really needed anymore.

First do no harm.

@FlyPassed

I highly recommend reading Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. It's based on the principles of moral psychology, and in it he talks about how instinct comes first and the rational mind finds ways to justify the instinct, even if it contradicts facts and evidence. A kind of post-hoc justification. He sets out the moral framework that we (usually unconsciously) use e.g. care/harm, fairness/cheating, loyalty/betrayal etc.

I think the pertinent one here is the care/harm foundation. These parents want what's best for the child* and the loudest, socially acceptable narrative is thst care = affirmation.

I'm probably not explaining it very well, but I really recommend the book. Coddling of the American Mind is also very good (and relevant to differences between Gen Z and older generations), and there are lots of interviews and lectures, of his, on YouTube.

*notwithstanding homophobes like the man put forward by the ACLU at last week's senate hearing

This reminds me of a comment, or maybe it was a study of some kind, about the idea that those not educated at universities were less able to think through and understand issues. What it suggested was this was untrue, even those who had been to university were really not more likely to be thoughtful before coming to their particular viewpoint.

But they were better at making it sound like they had based it on logic and sound arguments and evidence.

Better bullshitters.

Confuses me too
Especially when people still say soya mill is bad for children ‘because of the hormones’ yet seem to be just fine with all this other stuff
Totally baffles me

*milk

@Cailleach1

If 80% of children who have gender dysphoria resolve it after adolescence, how would a parent prefer to have their child undergo surgery or be put on medication when four fifths of the time this issue doesn't persist? Avenues which may render your child sterile or on medication or with medical problems throughout their life.

I was always careful to try to only give paracetamol or ibuprofen to my offspring while they really needed it to control a fever etc. Stopped as soon as it wasn't really needed anymore.

First do no harm.

"If 80% of children who have gender dysphoria resolve it after adolescence"

Where are you getting that from?

"I thought being trans was not a mental illness"

It isn't, but living with it, especially in a transphobic society, can cause mental health problems.

@oxalisRed

I'm parent to an 18yr who has identified as trans. There's nothing we can do now to prevent her from medicating - our only hope is that the long waiting list will give her time to become content in her own body, rather than going on drugs and harming her body to create a change that she thinks will be the solution to her problem.

But in the last few years, her mental health has not been good - she has the trifecta of ASD, depression and eating disorder. She believes that changing her body will alleviate a lot of her mental unhappiness. Husband seems to agree with daughter that "everything is a trade off" and the side unknown and irreversible effects may be worth the improvement to her mental health.

But the main reason why I haven't come down hard against my daughter's view is because she's my daughter, she's vulnerable and I want to maintain a good relationship with her. If I don't show willingness to hear her perspective (she knows that I don't agree with her), I fear that she will proceed without us anyway and cut contact, we would really lose her then. It's entirely fear driven, not because I agree that she "doesn't feel like a girl, therefore she must be a boy".

Have you considered, just for a start, not misgendering him?

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2020/?section=Introduction

I've no idea.
Last year my DD said she has identified as a boy for 2 years. 😢
I've been supportive but said no hormones or binders. If she is the same at 18 I'll support her emotionally to progress as an adult but will not pay for transitioning.
I do see the implications of both stances. I just cannot condone hormones for my child.

@Shizuku

"I thought being trans was not a mental illness"

It isn't, but living with it, especially in a transphobic society, can cause mental health problems.

You'd better tell the NHS. They have it listed under mental health.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/gender-dysphoria/overview/

"You'd better tell the NHS. They have it listed under mental health."

They have gender dysphoria listed under mental health. Not all trans people have gender dysphoria.

@Shizuku

"You'd better tell the NHS. They have it listed under mental health."

They have gender dysphoria listed under mental health. Not all trans people have gender dysphoria.

It honestly used to be. When we moved away from that, that was when this lunacy started. What is it that makes someone trans? If they aren't uncomfortable with their sexed body than it's nothing more than an idea that they are a different gender.

So its not a mental illness but it is a medical condition?
How is the medical condition of being trans diagnosed?
What kind of medical condition is it?

Thats to you shizuku.
On another thread you are arguing being trans is a medical condition.
Here you are saying its not a mental illness so I'd be quite interested in the diagnostic criteria for this condition thats not mental.
I wont hold my breath mind.

@Jillly

Thats to you shizuku. On another thread you are arguing being trans is a medical condition. Here you are saying its not a mental illness so I'd be quite interested in the diagnostic criteria for this condition thats not mental. I wont hold my breath mind.

Here, this is from the American Psychological Association:

"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than nontransgender persons."

@Shizuku

The parents of trans children are worried about the effects of hormones on their children. They are also worried about the effects of not transitioning on their children. In some cases they have more reason to worry about the latter than the former and they act accordingly.

Are you a parent Shizuku?

Yea that's not answered my question.
How is the medical condition, thats not a mental illness diagnosed?

What rubbish. What problem is being alleviated by taking hormones and undergoing medical procedures? If all the parts are functioning properly, it's not a medical problem.

If it's a problem with how they express their 'gender' and avoid discrimination, then the answer is not to take a load of hormones but to advocate for a society where you don't have to fit into stupid gender norms. That's what we had in previous generations. We had transsexuals and also people who were GNC. Now we've created something new that can't be defined because it's based on bollocks.

Maybe my question isnt clear.
How is the medical condition of being trans, thats not a mental illness diagnosed?
Examples of medical conditions, some of which can cause mental health problems,
Pcos, diognosed by scan/biopsy
Asthma, diognosed by peak flow test
Ibs, diognosed by blood test
Diabetes, diognosed by blood/unine tests.
Even mental health illness which cant be tested for pysically will often have physical symptoms.
I've got anxiety, it can cause sweating, heavy chest, nausea, ringing ears, teeth grinding.
So what is the diagnostic test for being trans and what are the physical symptoms?