"Women and non-binary people feel unsafe walking home alone"

[MimiDaisy11]

I turned on the BBC news channel to hear one of the guests on the panel say this. It was obviously part of a discussion into the kidnap/death of Sarah Everard and the wider implications. This statement bothered me though as it illustrates the problem with being "inclusive" - in that it changes the dynamics and reasons about why women are scared alone at night and why they're vulnerable. It's nothing to do with my subjective view of myself, it's because I'm in a female body. I hate this implication that it's some mental difference/weakness. What confuses me is why more people can't see it?

Totally agree

I don't follow? Can you explain bit more please?
I'm reading it that women feel unsafe as do non binary people because both can be vulnerable to male violence.
Is non binary not much more better than saying TW and cis etc? Genuinely interested

Why would non-binary people feel unsafe?

No one looking at them would know they are 'non-binary'.

Non binary people can be male or female and of course external gender expression can be whatever.

So women and men feel unsafe.

Ok.

Do they think non binary people are all female?

Or present in a way that makes them stand out?

Sounds pretty transpobic to me.

I don't feel unsafe, despite having a female body, and lots of men do feel unsafe and they are indeed unsafe sometimes. It's not even about feelings, it's about risk. It actually annoys me all this equating vulnerability with femaleness, although I do understand the argument, I've always felt that it's gendered (sexed) element is oppressive.

Not heard what this is relating to.
Can say I don't and never have felt unsafe in my female body though (not dismissing those who have)
Not sure where non binary comes into it.
Surely we can all feel unsafe

It's oppressive to recognise that women and girls often face an awful lot of harassment etc from men when they are just going about their business?

Oppressive to who?

What the BBC means is that people in female bodies, aka women, feel unsafe Because . They . Are . Targets . Of . Male . Violence.

They are targets not because there is anything wrong with women. They're targets because they're smaller and there is something wrong with (some) (too many) men.

By throwing the "nonbinary" in there the Beeb is obviously desperate not to insult anyone by calling them women when they like to think they're not. But it does make it sound like femaleness isn't being targeted by males. Muddies the issue.

You can bet your last penny that these are not nonbinary males they're talking about. And, yes, sure, men can feel unsafe in specific neighborhoods under specific circumstances. Women live in a different world. You're lucky if it hasn't struck you yet and you are a sample size of one.

I used to take a fatalistic approach to it all.

I did whatever I wanted and thought fuck the 'rules'.

Having said that, I've got a list of stuff men and boys have done as long as your arm.

The risks that males and females face when out and about are different.

The idea that recognising that there's a large minority of men who are creepy pervy weirdos is not news to most women.

Nor is the fact that women and girls are generally smaller and weaker.

To frame that as what. Women and girls judging risk poorly and seeing themselves as vulnerable and ? colliding in their own oppression. Is a stance I can't agree with.

What the BBC means is that people in female bodies, aka women, feel unsafe Because . They . Are . Targets . Of . Male . Violence.

Sorry, but that depends on the individual though - I certainly don't feel unsafe.

But non binary people can be male

Oppressive to who?

When I was younger, I was always being told, it's not safe for women to be doing this or that. It's a perception. So, it's like we're victims twice. We're actual victims, but then we limit ourselves and also become victims that way. But yes, of course we have to assess actual risk. On the other hand, everything carries some risk.

Sorry, but that depends on the individual though - I certainly don't feel unsafe

How you feel has fuck all to do with it. If you have a female body you are at increased risk of harassment, sexual assault, rape etc than if you have a male body. Why would it depend on the individual? Do some women bring it on themselves?

Why would it depend on the individual? Do some women bring it on themselves?

No, it's just as if someone said "women are scared of heights". Heights are dangerous. It's reasonable to be scared of them, but some people aren't. I'm not scared of walking home in the dark. (I'm terrified of lots of other things, though, don't worry!)

If people want to talk about the safety risk for women, then fine. But the implication sometimes is (not on this thread, necessarily, but elsewhere) that women all should be scared and we should all stay at home.

What a dumb headline. If they are that desperate to look 'cool' and 'inclusive', why not just say "Some people feel unsafe walking home alone"? Surely that's the most inclusive headline possible as no one is left out.

What's all this nonsense about women and non-binary people? Are they saying MEN can't experience feeling unsafe when walking home? How exclusionary!

Some people feel unsafe walking home alone

That's the only logical statement and headline. Anything else is exclusionary and gender-phobic.

....so we're whining about trans being acknowledge people and ignoring the real problem again? Solid.

Acknowledged as people*

Forgot how to speak English for a moment there.

Hibari. You the first person mentioning trans on this thread...

Does non-binary mean trans? (genuine q)

Enough people have been bashed for being gay that I assume this statement is fairly accurate?

My daughter is at university and she says there 'non-binary' seems to be used as shorthand for a non-feminine woman. Clear words are so important

I think they mean gender non conforming. It's not great wording.

Very much agree OP.

@Doona

Hibari. You the first person mentioning trans on this thread...

Does non-binary mean trans? (genuine q)

From what I've read/encountered (I'm a cis woman and in my mid 30s so it's a little limited), they seem to fall under the same umbrella as things outside of binary gender stuff.

@Quaagars

What the BBC means is that people in female bodies, aka women, feel unsafe Because . They . Are . Targets . Of . Male . Violence.

Sorry, but that depends on the individual though - I certainly don't feel unsafe.

That's great for you, but you must recognise that your experience isn't representative of the majority of women. Most of us do report either feeling unsafe or having experienced some level of sexual assault. Those things are related, and driven by our biology. Men simply don't have the same fear of rape or sexual assault that women do.

And the stats back it up Men aren't killed by their partners or sexually assaulted by strangers at the rates women are.

I'm pleased that you don't feel unsafe but the reality is that make violence towards women is a risk to the majority of us and many of us take precautions in terms of how we dress, what routes we walk and how we carry our keys as a direct response to that threat.

You may not feel the same but I hope that you can see that your view isn't representative of women