Ffs Davina

[greyinganddecaying]

In this series of tweets Davina says that women being killed is rare (tell that to the 118 women whose names were read out by Jess Phillips (& their families))

https://twitter.com/thisisdavina/status/1370302344575995904?s=21

And goes on to victim blame, saying that she wouldn't walk home in the dark.

It's the inconsistency that annoys me. She says abduction/murder is rare and that this fear mongering isn't healthy, and that there are a very small number of bad people (men, Davina, men...) but then says she wouldn't walk alone in the dark and that a lot of men she knows wouldn't either.
I mean if everything is so safe and we're all overreacting, why won't she walk alone in the dark? And is it beyond her to think that actually quite a lot of us resent not being able to go out after dark without a fucking chaperone? In winter, we get about 7 hours of daylight. My husband goes out with the dog in the dark, earphones in. Never occurs to him to worry someone will rape him.
As said before, many of us have been attacked in the light too.

I used to work in a bar and by the time I'd finished cleaning up it would be 3:30am and the streets would be deserted apart from a few pissed up blokes. Only way to get home was to walk or spend an hour's pay on a taxi. I used to put my trainers on, put my key between my fingers and run home every night. Welcome to the real world Davina.

I unfollowed Davina a few months ago when she started re tweeting anti mask, anti science stuff relating to covid. This doesn't really surprise me, she's always struck me as a 'cool girl', not a woman's woman.

As I said it is unpalatable, but it is a risk to walk home alone after dark in secluded, unlit places. It absolutely shouldn't be, but it is.

The police offer safety guidelines, yet I regularly see people saying they are wrong for doing so.

Taking responsibility (as far as we can) is neither victim-blaming nor absolving the perpetrator from blame. It is common sense.

The gung ho, approach - I should be able to do this safely, therefore, I will, is, quite frankly, stupid.

There may well be occasions when risks have to be taken but they should be minimised as far as possible. Employers and wider society need to implement safety strategies across towns and boroughs.

The thing that I found most infuriating...no, shocking, about her tweet wasn’t the accusation of “fear-mongering” (though that was jaw-droppingly insensitive). It was the suggestion that all this focus on men’s violence is bad for men’s mental health and that we should think about the impact on men before we talk about our experiences of how they’ve hurt or threatened us. I mean...I don’t even know where to start.

She's right. There should be more personal responsibility for this situation. Men should take responsibility for the violence they commit.

One certain way to reduce attacks on women would be to have curfews on men going out at night. One thing which is definitely vanishingly rare is women attacking men, or other women.

And another thing, if we do have to talk about men, it is a fact that men are more vulnerable to attack by strangers than women. But men are attacked by men. The problem is not women being vulnerable, it's male violence!

@CattyCactus

“And men’s mental health is an issue too” Jeez. It’s all about the poor fucking men.

I can't help feeling that the mental health of men is not improved by seeing their wives, sisters and daughters raped and murdered.

As I said it is unpalatable, but it is a risk to walk home alone after dark in secluded, unlit places. It absolutely shouldn't be, but it is.

All sorts of things are risky. Driving a car - you might have someone run into you Going to a concert or on the underground or a plane - possible terrorist attacks.
Generally people try to balance their desire for freedom and to live with the risk of something bad happening. And if something bad does happen, we generally don't blame people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And yet when it comes to women, that seems to go out of the window. People really seem to like picking over what women were wearing and how much they'd drunk and how late it was to try and place the blame on them. When men do it, I get the impression it's a matter of trying to control women, to judge the immoral behaviour of a woman drinking or going out late without a man. And when women do it, I think they're trying to reassure themselves this won't happen to them - because they'd never be as silly or foolish as the women who did get attacked or killed.

@Minty82

The thing that I found most infuriating...no, shocking, about her tweet wasn’t the accusation of “fear-mongering” (though that was jaw-droppingly insensitive). It was the suggestion that all this focus on men’s violence is bad for men’s mental health and that we should think about the impact on men before we talk about our experiences of how they’ve hurt or threatened us. I mean...I don’t even know where to start.

Glosswitch talks about this a lot. The hopelessly naive idea that if we'd just ask nicely, men would listen to us, but hey, we made it all confrontational, so they're not gonna help us out now.

CheltenhamLady, do you think that employers and ‘wider society’ are going to willingly implement those safety strategies? Or do you think this discussion of male violence and how to minimise or prevent it needs to be had no order for that change to take place? Do we need to legislate for structural change?

I would love to only venture out safely in the daylight.

My job doesn’t allow it.

What now love? A bit of reality telly to boost the coffers of so that I can take responsibility for my safety?

Or do we just tattoo all the wrong uns on their faces?

We know fine it isn’t all men. But until someone can help me tell the difference, then at dark o’clock I’ll be wary of all of the buggers.

What safety strategy exactly?

Male escorts to walk women home ? Cos that means they are safe doesn't it ?

Female staff walk home together? How does the last women get home ?

No men would object at all to having to work 9-6 while all the women got to leave at 3 all winter....

Where are these magic flexible show up In day light and still get paid full time hours jobs?

Ffs

FGS, if a woman can't walk home at 9.30pm at night along one of London's busiest roads what sort of life are we agreeing to?

Even more so now with Covid where we are told to stay off public transport and not take the risks of cabs unless we have to. There is immense pressure to walk and cycle only in London at the moment so as to not add to pollution while avoiding public transport. [streetspace scheme has had a budget of millions to re-purpose roads and create low traffic neighbourhoods that push people not to drive]

As I said it is unpalatable, but it is a risk to walk home alone after dark in secluded, unlit places. It absolutely shouldn't be, but it is.

She didn't. She walked along a fully lit main road in London. In bright warm clothing, sensible shoes, and at 9pm. She was almost certainly abducted on a well light road with cars and buses passing regularly and numerous flats overlooking.

It wouldn't be her fault even if she had done none of the above, but she was not exactly engaged in high risk behaviour.

@Toughie

CheltenhamLady, do you think that employers and ‘wider society’ are going to willingly implement those safety strategies? Or do you think this discussion of male violence and how to minimise or prevent it needs to be had no order for that change to take place? Do we need to legislate for structural change?

I think we probably do need legislation to force councils to factor in safety when they change areas. Ditto, to improve areas to add safety.

There are things that can be implemented, but the will needs to be there. Failing that, it needs to be mandated.

So you'd he happy calling for an ambulance only to be told half the staff went home hours ago ? We will be round at 8 when it's light ?

I don’t suppose my employer cares much about how I get to and from work. They don’t mind that I am seriously isolated.

They just care that I get there and do my job.

As with most things that happen, all I envisage happening (should something befall me) is that a chirpy little email will come out reminding us to be careful.

They didn’t care much when a colleague made work frightening and manhandled me, so why should they care about anything else?

And yes. It was a male colleague.

I just double checked on the Serena Williams comment and she did not accept that she said exactly what was reported. Have reported my own post

FGS, if a woman can't walk home at 9.30pm at night along one of London's busiest roads what sort of life are we agreeing to?

Agreed. Sunset by 16.30 in winter. Not so easy avoiding walking home in the dark.

Bed by 17.00 ladies.

@StatisticallyChallenged

As I said it is unpalatable, but it is a risk to walk home alone after dark in secluded, unlit places. It absolutely shouldn't be, but it is.

She didn't. She walked along a fully lit main road in London. In bright warm clothing, sensible shoes, and at 9pm. She was almost certainly abducted on a well light road with cars and buses passing regularly and numerous flats overlooking.

It wouldn't be her fault even if she had done none of the above, but she was not exactly engaged in high risk behaviour.

I don't want to comment specifically on this case, but according to reports, part of her journey took her across Clapham Common. Many posters on MN said they wouldn't consider that route after dark due to the kind of people who hang out around there.

I agree with your last sentence about fault. It wasn't her fault, that fault lies with the killer.

@CheltenhamLady

As I said it is unpalatable, but it is a risk to walk home alone after dark in secluded, unlit places. It absolutely shouldn't be, but it is.

The police offer safety guidelines, yet I regularly see people saying they are wrong for doing so.

Taking responsibility (as far as we can) is neither victim-blaming nor absolving the perpetrator from blame. It is common sense.

The gung ho, approach - I should be able to do this safely, therefore, I will, is, quite frankly, stupid.

There may well be occasions when risks have to be taken but they should be minimised as far as possible. Employers and wider society need to implement safety strategies across towns and boroughs.

Some women get a curfew? How the hell is that better. How is that even practical? How then will the women attacked/raped/murdered in daylight be told it's their fault. Cos you can bet your life they will be.

Are we really STILL not past ‘not all men are rapists’?

Do better, Davina!