Talking to girls about male violence against women

[AlexaShutUp]

I have been reading through some of the threads on here about women being sexually harassed and assaulted, and reflecting on my own experiences, and it has got me thinking about how I should be talking to my 15yo dd about these things.

We have talked a lot about sexism and misogyny over the years. She is very aware of the issues at a societal level, but I haven't talked to her much about how this problem might affect her personally (other than the usual stuff about bodily autonomy etc). I have been struck by how many women (including myself) are affected by these issues from an early age, even younger than my dd.

I want to talk to her about this, but what is the best way of approaching it? Honestly speaking, it never occurred to me to report any of the stuff that happened to me, and I didn't recognise it for what it was (sexual assault) for many years. I just accepted it as something that women had to put up with. I don't want my dd to feel that she just has to tolerate this stuff, but equally, I know how easy it is to minimise these episodes when they actually happen. I'd be interested to know how other parents have handled conversations with their daughters about this stuff.

Never had a conversation with my daughter about it, but she is very feisty indeed and has tackled men fearlessly. Perhaps too fearlessly actually as it out her at risk at couple of times.

DD is very feisty too, and is superquick to call out sexism/racism etc when she sees it.

I guess I just don't want to take it for granted that she would report it if she was assaulted physically in some way. I look back on my younger self and feel sad at how disempowered I felt in those situations. It's so easy to freeze and then try and convince yourself that it wasn't a big deal. Especially when you might already know the perpetrator.

I guess I'm just acutely conscious of how difficult it is to make waves in certain situations. I'd like to think that dd would feel able to speak out, but it's hard to actually know.

This an self defence classes should be what the PSHE currículum at School covers rather than the jelly babies, unicorns and glitter nonsense

@Terranean

This an self defence classes should be what the PSHE currículum at School covers rather than the jelly babies, unicorns and glitter nonsense

A-fucking-men.

Yes, I agree @Terranean. I wish schools covered this stuff well.

Self defence classes are an idea worth investigating. I will look into what is available in my area, though I imagine that it's limited at the moment.

My girls are very young - 6 & 8 but I am acutely aware they seem less aware of things than I was at their age. I don't know if it's because we cosset them more? It was on the news this morning about Sarah Everard and I was on the loo and they walked in by the TV and I was sat there thinking oh please do t hear this and at the same time ok they need to know. It's so hard.

I'm very honest with my girls who are now 11 and 13. They know about, sex, rape, porn, prostitutes, coercive control etc.
They know it is more likely someone they know who may hurt them and that person will threaten them not to tell me by saying something bad would happen to me, but I told them this is a lie and they should always tell me if something is off.
My oldest has really good senses so I've told her to trust them. My youngest is autistic so she just gets angry I think it all scares her.
I've told them that when they older if they are ever in trouble to ring me and I will fetch them even if they have told me a lie to be out.
Some of this I did have to explain a such younger age.

Explaining porn to your 7 year old isn't great but her dad (who we don't live) with had allowed her to 'read' his porn magazines.

I think as women we are very good at blaming ourselves but teaching that you are not responsible for someone elses behaviour is good. The consequences of that behaviour are not her responsibility.

I'd teach her about red flags. there are two books that explain them;

The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker
tinyurl.com/GiftoFear

Lundy Bancroft - Why Does He Do That?
tinyurl.com/LundyWhy

Read them and see if you think she is ready for them.

I may have done slightly to good a job of this. My 14 yo DD often spouts that “all men are trash” so I have some back pedalling to do

I think using balanced real world examples rather than generalisations would be helpful. And exposing her to articles by men calling out shitty behaviour to show that they’re NALT.

*too good

MarkRuffalo she sounds ace

@Thelnebriati

I'd teach her about red flags. there are two books that explain them;

The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker
tinyurl.com/GiftoFear

Lundy Bancroft - Why Does He Do That?
tinyurl.com/LundyWhy

Read them and see if you think she is ready for them.

Yy to this. They need to know what a healthy relationship is. That coercion is not healthy. That it should be equal and respectful.

Self defence is great, but for most the danger will be in their own home. They need to know the signs and how to get out.

Thanks for all of the comments. As it turned out, we had a good discussion tonight. It was initiated by dd, telling me about the argument that she had had on instagram with a boy at her school who was whining about the proposal from a green party peer that we should impose a curfew for men. She explained the point that this woman was trying to make really well, and then countered his bogus statistics about domestic violence from some "mankind" website with proper stats from the ONS. She was civil but firm and didn't take any bullshit. Called him out for being dismissive and patronising. To his credit, the lad actually apologised. I was bowled over by how much she knew and so proud of how she stood up for herself!

Anyway, that led to a conversation about my personal experiences of sexual assault and misogyny more generally, and how I now regret not reporting it at the time. We also talked about how it would be good to learn some self defence, and she said maybe she could persuade her friends to go with her. I will definitely look at the books suggested above as she clearly wants to learn more.

Am so sorry she has to learn more. Its important though. If you don't know, it's hard to protect yourself and others.

Red flags is spot on. When I look back there were so many red flags in those first two weeks, but I brushed them aside as I wasn't going to end the relationship as I had low self esteem and thought we could make it work.
The Freedom Programme booklet Living with the Dominator is good.blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9780955882708?gC=5a105e8b&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5Pj1wuyr7wIVy-7tCh2cnwQ2EAQYASABEgIK1PD_BwE
That programme saved my life I would've gone back if I hadn't been sent on that course.

I think her father should talk to her too, even if it's difficult. It shouldn't just be women's business.

Can any women on this forum offer specific advice to a father regarding how to speak with a 12-year old daughter about these issues?

These are uncomfortable topics for a 12-year old to discuss with her father, so advice would be welcome around tone as well as content.

Thanks in advance for any help on this!

I recommend you start by telling your child that if she needs to tell you something, you will just listen. Tell her you wont react, you won't tell her what to do, you will listen; and then she will work out what she wants to do and you will support her.

Thank you, I will definitely take on board the point about red flags as it's a very valid point about much of the danger being at home. I appreciate the resources on these. Tbh, I could probably do with doing a bit of additional reading in this area myself, as I haven't ever experienced any issues within relationships personally and I suspect I'm blissfully ignorant.

Interesting point about self defence, and again, I totally take the point. I understand and agree with the advice about avoiding dodgy situations, though it sticks in my throat to be telling young women how to modify their behaviour to protect themselves. Sadly, that's just the world we live in.

It's a very good idea to get DH to talk to DD about these issues, but like @YankeeDad, I think he would really need some advice on how to approach this. He is from a country where misogyny and rape culture are very deeply embedded, and he has talked with dd quite a lot about the huge disadvantages faced by his sisters and his nieces; DD is also aware that he has done loads to support and advocate for them. However, I think he would really struggle to talk to her about how rape culture and sexual violence might impact on her. Some advice on how a dad should talk about these issues with his daughter would be really helpful.

X post with a few people!

Following this thread. My eldest daughter is almost the age I was when something happened to me. I feel like I need to explain things to her already (6)