Tuesday 9th March - could be a big day

[Xanthangum]

1. Helen Staniland and Glinner giving evidence to the Commons

1. Fair Play For Women VS UK Statistics Authority at Royal Courts of Justice at 10am

1. The Court of Appeal and Harry/ We Are Fair Cop - The Court of Appeal will examine the validity of the College of Police Hate Crimes Guidance

I wanted to start a thread where any major decisions or outcomes and links to anyone live tweeting or online footage. See you back here tomorrow!

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Surely, just those who have already completed the census? I didn't get the guidance with my letter, it just pointed me to online.

But they don't know how many people have already read the guidance and will apply it - people aren't going to keep checking the guidance to see if it has changed before they submit, and we know this guidance has been widely talked about in the communities it will most impact.

Totally! Most will answer without bothering with explanatory notes!

Sure. Back now

ONS has never said that collecting sex data is not necessary because is can be imputed from the gender identity question. It is simply wrong to say this. /23

JC says correcting online guidance is simple. Gives example of how twitter account gave out wrong guidance and then the next day corrected it. Shows how easy it is to make corrections quickly. /24

Am going to shout this soon

No one will have completed the census yet...Sunday 21st March or as soon thereafter as possible. The only stuff that has gone out, is a general leaflet and the online access code. I can't see it being a massive issue to make the changes online and on any form requests and if they have to, then tough (as the judge has already pointed out)

highame

Someone (purportedly a solicitor) is saying this which is clearly incorrect, basically a falsification. A clear conflation of sex and gender.

"If the question asks your sex on Census Day then responding with your sex at birth may clearly be wrong."

twitter.com/truesolicitor/status/1369245816729309191

No one will have completed the census yet

Plenty have afaik

Judge: options open could be interim declaratory relief confirming sex = legal sex or to order removal of the words 'such as' and 'passport' from the existing guidance. /25

If it is the same Judge Swift as in the MoJ JR, then I am absolutely delighted.

It might be a stretch to get one's legal head around the extent and impact of regulatory capture de novo, bearing in mind that Judges are pretty keen on the law and would imagine that that should be the starting point for the MoJ and the ONS too.

But Swift has already had a crash course in obfuscation and the upside-down and the awful consequences of self-ID/ not capturing GRC data where biological sex is regarded as less important than gender identity.

Expressing 'Surprise' on the outside meanwhile thinking "Here we go again."

I remain bewildered. If people fill in the sex question with their self identified sex and then choose not to complete the optional GI question (which some of mimmy’s followers have said) - they are literally erasing trans people from the data and will undermine the argument for trans specific services including the new GIDS clinics. Bizarre.

anyold Someone up thread suggested that a new leaflet would have to be sent out which is clearly not the case. I think, given that sex was already the way to go before February, the change back should be just as simple. Unless (conspiracy theory comin up) they had said sex not gender to waylay any court action????

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

No one will have completed the census yet

Plenty have afaik

Yes, there have been a number of people online who have already done this, as well as calling for it to be completed now 'before the guidance' changes as per the screenshot upthread. TBH, I think even if the guidance does change, it seems that some people at least will make a point of answering it how they want to, even if it means the ONS's figures on their own community are unreliable.

twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1369251572539154434?s=20

... and over at the Court of Appeal Harry the Old is ready for the College of Policing

Sir James now sets out ONS's defence.
Sex must be a matter of statutory interpretation.
The answer is only constrained only by what the respondent believes their sex to be. It is not related to what's on documents. /26

The defences argument looks... interesting

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

No one will have completed the census yet

Plenty have afaik

Yep, several people on a different forum I frequent say they've filled it in already as they aren't expecting their answers to be any different on the 21st.

You really really can't have laws based on the belief that reality is in the eye of the beholder imo

Owl! Not Old. Sorry Harry

Sir James now sets out ONS's defence.
Sex must be a matter of statutory interpretation.
The answer is only constrained only by what the respondent believes their sex to be. It is not related to what's on documents. /26

Umm what????

The answer is only constrained only by what the respondent believes their sex to be.

Hippie statisticians?

The Census law uses "umbrella terms". It does not constrain the definition of sex. There could be a range of possible concepts of sex; social, legal, physical etc. It isn't restricted to birth certificate and GRC only /27

What's social sex now? Is this another weird way to conflate it with gender?

@gardenbird48

I remain bewildered. If people fill in the sex question with their self identified sex and then choose not to complete the optional GI question (which some of mimmy’s followers have said) - they are literally erasing trans people from the data and will undermine the argument for trans specific services including the new GIDS clinics. Bizarre.

I don't think many trans people will be able to "erase" themselves in that way. Some will, but if this comes down in our favour it will be illegal and that is the main thing. That the law backs up common sense.

Judge "I'm having difficulty understanding"

that's 'cos it's all bobbins!

The Census law uses "umbrella terms". It does not constrain the definition of sex. There could be a range of possible concepts of sex; social, legal, physical etc. It isn't restricted to birth certificate and GRC only /27

Judge "I'm having difficulty understanding" /28

I don’t envy Sir James with that one. Official stats should be based on people’s beliefs not objective criteria. It must take all his years at the Bar to be able to deliver that with a straight face.

The Census law uses "umbrella terms". It does not constrain the definition of sex. There could be a range of possible concepts of sex; social, legal, physical etc. It isn't restricted to birth certificate and GRC only

doesn't that totally contradict this:

JC explains Census Order states that one of the 'demographic particulars' that must be asked is 'sex' with options of either male or female. It is a crime not to provide an answer. This is a factual question not one of 'what best describes your sex' /13

Judge says "ONS doesn't get to choose what sex is". ONS must simply do as its required to by the Census Order. JC says: The question must be "what IS your sex"