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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I may actually be being a bigot - please talk me down

44 replies

ClockTowerMagnet · 05/03/2021 15:59

DD is at an all girls' secondary school. It's doing very well, and has had a great, female head teacher for the last few years.

This female head teacher has just left (decided not to return after maternity leave). We've just heard she's being replaced by a head teacher from another local school, who has a bad reputation (as being unpleasant and authoritarian). He's also a man.

Obviously, we're upset that he has a bad reputation.

But also, as a separate issue, we're upset that the female head of this all girls' school has been replaced by a man. There was something so brilliant about this being a female enterprise. The girls were excelling in sciences and maths. They had this strong, female role model running the ship. It's one of the things I liked about the school.

AIBU to mind?

OP posts:
Justhadathought · 05/03/2021 16:04

I get that!

I attended an all girls school, and whilst we did have a few male teachers, most were female, and the Heads always were. Yes, I liked the whole sense of female power, authority, everything......strong female role models.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 05/03/2021 16:04

I don't think you're being unreasonable to mind. I taught at an all-girls' school at one point, the strong female head was definitely a plus point.

Original poster
ClockTowerMagnet · 05/03/2021 16:04

I'll also add that the vast majority of the teachers are women.
So what we'll have is a large group of female students and teachers, and they will all be answering to a male at the head of them all. The replication of standard patriarchal structures actually makes me want to cry for all those girls.

OP posts:
Original poster
ClockTowerMagnet · 05/03/2021 16:06

Thanks @Justhadathought and @EndoplasmicReticulum. I'm both pleased and sad that you can see why I mind this.

OP posts:
FluffMagnet · 05/03/2021 16:26

Happened to my all-girls school just as I left. From all accounts, the first few years were very rocky (he did come in very bullishly and want to change everything immediately - our only interaction with him was on coming back for Prize Day, where he stood up in front of the recent leavers, their families and our old head and basically told us all how shit the school had been in the past (i.e. us) but how he was turning it around - absolute bollocks) but he is still in post now, 15 years later. I think it does change the dynamic, as we were all looking up to a very capable and beloved headteacher, who was an excellent model for female leadership.

Doyoumind · 05/03/2021 16:30

It's not bigoted. As you said, having a school full of girls and a staff of women with a man in charge feels jarring. Perhaps he's the best person for the job but he won't be able to advocate for females in the same way.

bourbonne · 05/03/2021 16:37

I would feel the same way... A bit sad. It's a far cry from Malory Towers, eh?

ArabellaScott · 05/03/2021 16:39

a bad reputation (as being unpleasant and authoritarian)

That would also worry me, tbh. Although sometimes teachers are different in different settings.

I hear where you're coming from, OP. I actually am delighted when our mostly female-staffed school gets some male teachers in, I think it's great to get both males and females in schools teaching. But the only male being the head does sit somewhat uncomfortably.

ancientgran · 05/03/2021 16:41

As long as you would feel the same about a female being head of a boys school I don't think it makes you a bigot. Not sure who should be head of a mixed school though.

Doyoumind · 05/03/2021 16:44

@ancientgran

As long as you would feel the same about a female being head of a boys school I don't think it makes you a bigot. Not sure who should be head of a mixed school though.
The likelihood of that happening is remote.

It's not the same anyway because we live in a patriarchy.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 05/03/2021 16:44

Of course it’s not bigoted to mind. It’s men who have oppressed women for gazillions of years, not the other way around. Women are still disadvantaged in countless ways, and we still have considerably less political and financial power and influence in the world: strong female role models for girls are really important in the ongoing (neverending) attempt to redress that.

Doesn’t help at all that his bad reputation precedes him. Sorry to hear, OP.

Original poster
ClockTowerMagnet · 05/03/2021 16:50

@ancientgran

As long as you would feel the same about a female being head of a boys school I don't think it makes you a bigot. Not sure who should be head of a mixed school though.
Actually, this is why I may be a bigot. DS is at exactly such a school. I like the female head, and never had a moment's doubt over the set-up.
OP posts:
Original poster
ClockTowerMagnet · 05/03/2021 16:51

Thank you for all the understanding wrt the patriarchy

OP posts:
ancientgran · 05/03/2021 16:53

@ClockTowerMagnet sorry that didn't help. Don't you think boys need role models as much as girls? I sent my kids to mixed schools so never had the dilemma. I'd be more worried about if his reputation is true than his sex.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 05/03/2021 17:07

Boys aren’t fighting against a legacy of literally thousands of years of being the second sex.

Boys don’t lack powerful, influential male role models.

Boys don’t grow up knowing their great grandfathers weren’t allowed to vote because they were male.

Boys don’t grow up in the awareness of the prevalence of sexual assault against them by members of the opposite sex.

There is no symmetry here.

ancientgran · 05/03/2021 17:24

Alot of working class white boys aren't doing well at school so maybe all boys should have a male head as a role model.

My grandfather didn't have the vote when he first became an adult, wasn't universal until 1918. Many men and women didn't have the vote in Northern Ireland (where my family come from) until 1969 so I'm sure there are plenty of British boys who know their grandfathers, never mind great grandfathers, didn't have the vote. The same would apply to their grandmothers.

Not sure what a male head has to do with sexual assaults unless you are making some sort of allegation against this man.

I can't see what happened thousands of years ago is having a big effect in the OP's daughters school.

2bazookas · 05/03/2021 17:27

OR

They might be about to watch grown up women and men work together as equals, with mutual respect. Those teenage girls with absent or shit fathers might be about to encounter a different kind of man, a decent one who recognises and honours boundaries.

        I wouldn't write him off  until you've seen him in action.
Original poster
ClockTowerMagnet · 05/03/2021 17:31

[quote ancientgran]@ClockTowerMagnet sorry that didn't help. Don't you think boys need role models as much as girls? I sent my kids to mixed schools so never had the dilemma. I'd be more worried about if his reputation is true than his sex.[/quote]
Yes, I agree with this in theory about male role models. And I agree the reputation is the main issue, but it brings the sex/gender thing into focus as well.

Most of the schools in our area are single sex. It's just one of those areas.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 05/03/2021 17:32

I wasn't blaming you for choosing a single sex school, sorry if it came across like that. I went to an all girls school myself, hated it but that is another story.

bourbonne · 05/03/2021 17:37

Tbf (pedant alert) their great-grandfathers probably couldn't vote because they didn't own property. I think universal suffrage was much more a rich/poor issue than a male/female issue overall, though that's not how it's popularly remembered. I don't think a single one of my ancestors could vote, at times when wealthy widows or single women could.

I do agree though that it's positive for both sexes to see examples of women in leadership positions. A man heading up an otherwise all-female institution does feel a tad egregious, considering the societal context.

BlackForestCake · 05/03/2021 17:38

I think the teachers who are actually in the classroom are much more influential as role models. When I was at school I hardly ever saw the head teacher.

bourbonne · 05/03/2021 17:38

(slow typing, ancientgran got there first!)

TwistedEyeOfHorus · 05/03/2021 17:39

Having sent my daughter through a single sex school, I quite liked the idea of girls in a girls school seeing a woman in charge.

There must be a reason he's been chosen: perhaps he'll be okay, but it's a shame the optics look bad. Like you say, gang of women and one proud Lion to rule them all.

WannabemoreWeaver · 05/03/2021 17:43

I went to an all female college at university and, having not been in favour of single sex education, have been a massive convert to the need of female only organizations since then. It is a great shame they did not appoint a woman and a horrible message to girls.

Wetcappuccino · 05/03/2021 17:45

In terms of mixed sex schools, it seems to me as though males are over-represented in senior roles generally. In a profession that is female dominated, so many male teachers progress very quickly through the ranks to senior/ management positions.