Are feelings not allowed to be discussed on FWR?

[stumbledin]

Just asking as two threads have now been deleted.

No one understands why.

One was offering support to someone feeling low. What can be wrong with that?

The other was asking what did we do wrong.

@MNHQ if you feel something is "NITS" you need to explain how?

Otherwise it just seems totally subjective.

And if something has been said that is wrong but nobody knows it is wrong then we are in some sort of vicious circle of opaqueness.

This is genuine request for clarity.

I agree.

No explanation given. Nothing. It takes so much energy to pluck up the courage to post on here...then the paranoia sets in that you have somehow outed yourself. Yep pretty upsetting.

Thank you persitantwoman! Perhaps I will have another crack at my post.

@Ninkanink

I think it’s ridiculously disrespectful and dismissive to not even bother to write out the words ‘not in the spirit.’

I’d go so far as to say that it’s not in the spirit of the site.

to @cheeseismydownfall

@Helmetbymidnight

when i last saw that thread it was very gentle, very supportive and encouraging- either some raging ragers got on it and started doing ragey things- in which case delete their posts - or....i really dont know, really, how on earth it could be construed as nits- unless nits means something other than not in the spirit.

The thread was fine, but MNHQ decided to pull it once the DM referenced it. They stated that OP could request it to be re-instated if she wished.

What I dont understand is why whole threads get deleted when one or even two posts are wrong. Or if an OP has a no no word in, surely @MNHQ can just say we will have to edit.

A whole thread I started about supporting lesbians got deleted because I added a post with a link to a fund raising site. At that time I didn't know it wasn't allowed. But that one post could have been deleted, but the whole thing got binned. Also meant to be a supportive thread.

Maybe it depends who thread monitor for the day!

Innocents errors shouldn't be dealt with in this heavy handed way. And I am sure that MNHQ recognises that on many levels its talk forums functions as support and help.

And during lockdown and everythings else we really need save spaces online. And not have to tip toe round.

Ninkanink - the DM article is a different thread about should a mother pay for her son's transition on AIBU not the thread on FWR about feelings. I just added it as an example of what seems to be a never ending list of why things get deleted. And in fact dont understand why MNHQ didn't contact the OP of the AIBU thread and ask first if she wanted it deleted.

@cheeseismydownfall glad you are here. I have also been upset by recent deletion. I have lived almost 50 years of respectful and courteous communication. Now apparently twice in as many weeks I am saying things so distressing they have to be deleted. Don't let it put you off posting. It actually made me quite angry after I was over feeling upset.

I said earlier on one of the deleted threads that I read mumsnet fwr for years without being a member and learned to quickly c+p what I saw as the significant longer posts, realising that their ideas were so clearly expressed that they were almost bound to be challenged externally.

I only joined mumsnet as I'd copied a long, deleted post and the original poster hadn't kept a copy so I wanted to help. Turned out this brilliant, long post on srs was deleted on the use of one word - 'guise'. All that thought, time, energy, resource gone because of what ultimately turned out to be a comprehension error (guise ≠ disguise) so the post was reinstated with a single word change.

I read loads here but rarely post, partly because there are so many brilliant thinkers on this board and I am fascinated to see their ideas.

But the main reason I post infrequently is that when I do post, there is an additional time commitment because I feel I have to write out what I have to say beforehand so I can make sure I am being really, really careful to stay within the guidelines while also expressing my point.

This is not because I am a big meanie who just wants to say mean things - civility is very important to me too - but because a) the guidelines are weighted away from using language in a straightforward manner so verbal contortionist skills are needed to express anything complex and because b) there are now apparently forbidden/deletable words which are not expressly mentioned in the guidelines which we are expected to guess.

Cheeseismydownfall's post and thread were deleted, I would bet, because of a single 4 letter word beginning with p. I've DM'd you a copy of your post, cheese as it was lovely, just in case you don't have a copy.

You did not say something in any way offensive and it was just a thread about trying to maintain hope by meeting up in real life with like minded people. I do hope that you will start another thread.

A prominent TRA posted part of the support thread on Twitter, to show how ridiculously over-emotional GC women are over the loss of rights. They probably reported it at the same time.

I won't link as it'll probably get reported as a TAAT.

Ah, I also had a post deleted (on the ‘baddies’ thread) for the mountain top word. I honestly did not know that was a thing. I posted to ask why and had the reply that it was that word, and could repost with it removed - but the thread had moved on, so didn’t bother.

Such an innocuous word, but I suppose very descriptive in relation to the subject matter. It does feel very ‘1984’ though. I find the censorship here very heavy-handed now compared to when this was all fields - and it’s one of the reasons that I haven’t bothered with Premium. I used to post so much, but other than an important support thread I am on, I rarely do these days. I suppose I’m scared to get things wrong (as I did!)

@cheeseismydownfall again.

I have now name changed. As the OP who had the 2 threads deleted yesterday morning, it was pretty upsetting. Especially as I thought that I had outed myself in real life - horrible feeling. Then being paranoid that my username itself was an affront to gender ideology, hence name changed, horrible feeling. Does not feel safe. At all. Way to kick people when they are already down.

@stumbledin

Ninkanink - the DM article is a different thread about should a mother pay for her son's transition on AIBU not the thread on FWR about feelings. I just added it as an example of what seems to be a never ending list of why things get deleted. And in fact dont understand why MNHQ didn't contact the OP of the AIBU thread and ask first if she wanted it deleted.

I posted on that thread (the transitioning one). I was explaining to the person that had said that the thread seemed to be fine that indeed it was, but MNHQ had taken it down as a precaution but had stated that it could be reinstated if OP requested it.

Threads are sometimes pulled if they are picked up by media, to protect the privacy of the relevant people.

I definitely agree that the policy should be to remove the offending word/term/link only, rather than just deleting the whole thing! It’s a ludicrous way of ‘moderating’ and can really upset people who are struggling and need support. Doesn’t quite seem ‘in the spirit’ to me! Never mind the fact that you then also lose all the usually very helpful discussion that’s happened in the thread.

What word are we graciously permitted to use instead, to describe the state of being maximally angered and distressed by rape and death threats, and the relentless attack on women’s rights?
A quick scan of Roget’s thesaurus offers a few possible synonyms for the p word.
Are any of these acceptable to MNHQ? Or are we to remain censored, gagged and silent in the face of such aggression?
May I point out that we are not asking for the same freedom as our opponents, to engage in violent intimidation - we merely wish to discuss our rights.

I agree Babdoc - and also our feelings.

In the same way that the term woke is, in principle, a short-hand for being alert to social injustice, my understanding is that the now-banned mountain term is simply a short-hard for being alert to the threat to women's sex based rights, particularly in relation to trans rights.

Personally speaking, I don't like much of the agenda and culture that 'woke' represents (that is putting mildly). But it wouldn't occur to me to find the term itself offensive, or try to prevent people from using it. People for whom the word 'woke' resonates are absolutely entitled to use the term as a way of describing their beliefs and values.

I genuinely don't get this one.

my understanding is that the now-banned mountain term is simply a short-hard for being alert to the threat to women's sex based rights, particularly in relation to trans rights.

My understanding of it was that it conveyed the sense of journey, and reaching a place - sometimes slowly and effortfully - where you can suddenly see clearly how the land lies.
I've no idea why it's considered problematic. If it's a banned term it should be added to the guidelines page, ideally with an explanation of why.

We’re not dealing with reasonable, moderate people.

That is the long and short of it.

(Referring to a certain faction, to be clear, not to MNHQ who I accept are trying, albeit failing in some respects, IMHO, to find a safe balance)

More Sunlight is being shone. Hopefully as that has an effect, MNHQ will be able to be more robust in their support of women’s free speech/rights and protections.

Also just realised that my comment about NITS might have been spoken (written) too soon - I thought that was literally the extent of what MNHQ had said in the deletion msg of the relevant thread. Now I’m thinking OP might have just used it for ease...

Long-term mumsnetters, is it time for a new term, like "P that must not be named" ?

piqued.

Or the great Maxine. (The actress)

The mountain term is cute.

Or just 'gets it now'.