Teenage girls and public space/facilities : an update

[makespaceforgirls]

I posted a while back about how rubbish my local council's reaction was when I pointed out that all of their park facilities for teenagers where predominantly used by boys.

Things didn't get any better, so I did some research. And then I co-opted my feminist lawyer friend, and now we're a campaigning group, hoping to be a charity soon. So welcome to Make Space for Girls.

Our website is here, and that will also give you our Twitter. We're on Facebook too.

We'd hoped to launch ourself with a pilot project working with teenage girls, but COVID has put the brakes on that - schools have enough to think about right now as it is.

Even so, we've had an amazing reaction from everyone we've spoken to, and these range from academics to big public bodies to architects. And everyone both agrees and can't believes that the problem hasn't been noticed before now. Well, everyone except my local council. Who are now going to be quite embarrassed as they are about to be our case study of the town which spent £175k on equipment for boys, and nothing for girls.

We will keep you posted! And if anyone wants to know more, there is a contact form on the website, or DM me here.

That's brilliant. I think I remember your thread.

what would spaces for girls look like, if not skate parks, biking stuff, sports hoops? Surely this is just sports equipment which is non gendered?

Can you link your previous thread? The front page of the website doesn't go into detail as to why some spaces are seen as 'for' boys. I seem to recall your thread had more info.

I see you have a 'research' section but I think to avoid people's instant reaction being as mine was it might be a good idea to make this a bit more prominent? Girls being pushed out by the increased presence of boys is an important point, I feel.

Good luck and great you stuck with it.

I think this is a great idea but you need to give some thought as to what girls spaces would look like

When I was that age a karaoke machine and lights around a mirror would have done for singing / dancing but that’s not really very practical

I also wonder if there is something that shows girls are often very self conscious about playing sport, especially in public in front of boys. Would girls necessarily use netball hoops / hockey pitch even if given the opportunity?

Perhaps something more gender neutral like trampolining would do it - but would that get past health and safety

That's great - I remember that thread and I'm glad such good has come from it

We really need a pinned post on this board with all the grassroots campaign groups that are springing up!

There is loads and loads of info at
makespaceforgirls.co.uk/research/

which outlines the case very well. It is a nuanced thing to consider and not so black and white as 'this is for boys' 'this is for girls'.

What "equipment" was "for boys" ? other than sex segregated toilets I can't think of any park equipment that's gender specific. My dd plays football, golf, uses the outdoor gym and runs on the off road trail.

I'm struggling to see what 'teenage girl' provision looks like - could you provide some examples?

My 13 year old daughter is an active footballer so both MUGA's and football pitches delight her.

Locally we have tennis courts and skate parks too.

There's probably more of a social aspect to teenage girls not using facilities i.e. an off putting group of males already there rather than the facilities being male orientated.

I'm not against the campaign, I fully support getting teenage girls out there and more active...but struggling to see what physical environments would actually improve this.

Great, my eldest is a pre-teen still but hope there will be provision for her when she grows.

Maybe smoother roller skating areas in the skateparks could be also a good addition

Interested in this. I'd have mentioned things like access to clean public toilets, better lighting, CCTV (even just to reassure parents), provision of hosted sports classes / teams for girls as well, thinking of what use girls make of our park spaces. Would be interesting to know the breakdown of attendees at park based events like Parkrun, whether teenage girls are more likely to attend an organised event like that.

@makespaceforgirls, that is fascinating, thank you for sharing. I'd never even considered this before.

For the posters asking what 'girl's spaces' would look like, there are some case studies from Europe on the website which started, sensibly enough, by actually consulting with girls.

Saying 'but girls can use skate parks too' is failing to engage with the reality of how these types of facilities are used in practice.

There's outdoor gym equipment at the park but its built for men, so I can't use most of it. I dont fit the equipment and its too heavy.
I wrote to the council and explained the problem, and asked them to add a leg lift machine and they did - its for men built like rugby players and it does squats.

I’m interested in what ‘girl’ spaces look like. I have two both sporty but they don’t play football or skate board. They do trampoline, roller skate, gymnastics, swim, cycle and did park run. The statistics around girls dropping sport once they turn 13are unbelievable something like only 9% still do active sport. This is reflected in my teen DDs friendship group despite some having active parents which I find odd & sad. It’s making it sociable and cool to do regardless of male/female is challenging. And the cost barrier. Good luck I hope you have some success.

I think it's more an issue with boys "taking over" spaces created for sports and leisure. The village I lived in created a skate park area on the recreation ground. The skate park became a no-go for girls and younger children because boys, particularly older ones, were hanging out there, smoking and drinking, and being rowdy and intimidating. The area soon became a problem with broken glass and stinking of piss.

@DimOndCadwAnadlu

I'm struggling to see what 'teenage girl' provision looks like - could you provide some examples?

My 13 year old daughter is an active footballer so both MUGA's and football pitches delight her.

Locally we have tennis courts and skate parks too.

There's probably more of a social aspect to teenage girls not using facilities i.e. an off putting group of males already there rather than the facilities being male orientated.

I'm not against the campaign, I fully support getting teenage girls out there and more active...but struggling to see what physical environments would actually improve this.

from looking at the research on the website

One is to improve the design of existing parks to make them more welcoming to girls, and to
prevent boys from dominating the spaces. Proven ways of doing this include:
• better lighting;
• pathways all around the perimeter of the area;
• more seating areas, preferably with seats which face each other;
• more swings;
• wider entrances in and out of areas;
• breaking down play areas into smaller spaces;
• Good, safe toilet provision

The research section is really good, and my goodness, they're absolutely right.

I hadn't ever thought about it before, but as a teenage girl, I did start being more careful about using little football pitches. I loved football but I stopped using a leisure area because it was next to the local skateboard park where crowds of male yoof gathered, who tried to show off in front of their friends by sexually harassing any nearby girls.

All the girls did, thinking about it. We preferred to play football in the street because there were nearby adults.

I can't believe I've never realised all this before. We just adjusted our lives around abusive teen boys without articulating why were doing it.

People will say budget cuts but having professional staff on hand within set hours (and fine if they’re mostly drinking tea in the office- I’m not suggesting patrols!) is essential to maintaining really good play areas and in play areas I have visited in two London boroughs these have been in place. Someone to go to if there’s an issue.

Hello everyone, thanks for the interest and support.

We just adjusted our lives around abusive teen boys without articulating why were doing it.

Yes, totally. Although I have been banned from including 'stopping boys from being dicks' in any of our work.

Anyhow, there's a pretty good summary of everything we know so far in this document: makespaceforgirls.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Make-Space-for-Girls-Summary-of-Research-findings-December-2020-web.pdf

And I'll try and answer some of the questions....

Right, the big one first. What do public spaces and facilities for teenage girls look like?

Short answer, we don't really know because they never, ever get asked.

The longer answer goes two ways. One is that, as someone pointed out upthread, you can redesign parks to make them less threatening for teenage girls and to stop the boys taking over. A really big part of this is breaking big spaces, including sports pitches and skate parks, into smaller ones so that boys do not dominate. There are plenty of other guideline too, which have been used in Barcelona and Vienna, so any park could improve itself.

The second is that one, yes one, park has been designed in Sweden with the input of teenage girls. They wanted gymnastic bars, a stage and a climbing wall, and it has been a great success. But the biggest win of all, as far as the girls were concerned, was being asked. They wanted to be consulted more, and share their experience with other girls.

Re: equipment

A family friend won a silver medal the first time women had rowing events in the Olympics. They didn't have trainers who knew how to train women and their boats and equipment were excess club boats for the men - wrong weight etc. They competed in a boat that was far too heavy.

After their Olympic success, manufacturers were actually interested in building boats that fit the women. The rowers acquired dedicated trainer time in the national squad and training from people with more sex-specific knowledge of sports physiology. iirc, they went on to win the gold in the following World Championships.

On a totally different level, lots of kayak and canoe clubs don't have adequate equipment to fit the non-men paddlers. And then they wonder why so many people give up the sport.

I'm not a teenager but when I'm out in my kayak on my local canal (a public space), I have to watch out for harassment by:
aggressive fishermen (rarely women);
drunks on the water who are on various platoons and start chasing me (it's a narrow canal);
teenagers throwing things at me.
DH paddles the same water and doesn't have anything like the same experience.

@minniemoocher The classic trio of provision for teenagers in parks are MUGA, skate park, BMX track. Here's a classic one in Cornwall:

www.groundwork.org.uk/projects/saltmill-park/

It's the same in my town too.

Yes girls can use all of them, but they don't. Research, when it happens, shows that they are 90% used by boys, and that boys intimidate girls off the spaces. What's more, a study in America showed that the presence of a skate park deterred girls from using a park.

So, in my town they have spent £175k on facilities which even a passer-by can see are predominantly used by boys and nothing on girls, and yet don't see this as an equality issue.

It's known that if women are included more in the design of towns, towns look very different. With things like more seating, wider pavements, better lighting. Women aren't included at often enough, nor go into careers that influence this often enough.

This sounds like a solution to the same problem at an earlier age. Brilliant idea OP.

Are you a charity?

@EmbarrassingAdmissions In my other life I am working on a book about writing women back into the countryside, and I have a collection of testimonials from women runners saying just the same thing, about being chased and harassed. There's a really good Rachel Hewitt essay on the subject.

In the end, that's the real problem, but we have to design spaces to counteract that shite.

Underneath it all, though, I think there is a fundamental issue. Women are entitled to be out in public space, and to belong in it. But when girls look at parks they see nothing for them, and get the message that they are meant to be staying at home. We shouldn't be taking this any more.

@SciFiScream We are currently jumping through the many hoops of the Charity Commission in order to become one. Then we can fund-raise for a pilot consultation in the autumn.