Teenage girls and public space/facilities : an update

[makespaceforgirls]

I posted a while back about how rubbish my local council's reaction was when I pointed out that all of their park facilities for teenagers where predominantly used by boys.

Things didn't get any better, so I did some research. And then I co-opted my feminist lawyer friend, and now we're a campaigning group, hoping to be a charity soon. So welcome to Make Space for Girls.

Our website is here, and that will also give you our Twitter. We're on Facebook too.

We'd hoped to launch ourself with a pilot project working with teenage girls, but COVID has put the brakes on that - schools have enough to think about right now as it is.

Even so, we've had an amazing reaction from everyone we've spoken to, and these range from academics to big public bodies to architects. And everyone both agrees and can't believes that the problem hasn't been noticed before now. Well, everyone except my local council. Who are now going to be quite embarrassed as they are about to be our case study of the town which spent £175k on equipment for boys, and nothing for girls.

We will keep you posted! And if anyone wants to know more, there is a contact form on the website, or DM me here.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

Re: equipment

A family friend won a silver medal the first time women had rowing events in the Olympics. They didn't have trainers who knew how to train women and their boats and equipment were excess club boats for the men - wrong weight etc. They competed in a boat that was far too heavy.

After their Olympic success, manufacturers were actually interested in building boats that fit the women. The rowers acquired dedicated trainer time in the national squad and training from people with more sex-specific knowledge of sports physiology. iirc, they went on to win the gold in the following World Championships.

On a totally different level, lots of kayak and canoe clubs don't have adequate equipment to fit the non-men paddlers. And then they wonder why so many people give up the sport.

I'm not a teenager but when I'm out in my kayak on my local canal (a public space), I have to watch out for harassment by:
aggressive fishermen (rarely women);
drunks on the water who are on various platoons and start chasing me (it's a narrow canal);
teenagers throwing things at me.
DH paddles the same water and doesn't have anything like the same experience.

I’m confused by this- I kayak. You have to be pretty elite to need a tailored boat and custom boats are pretty common from fairly average skill levels so it’s not hard. The club options are all completely standard and not particularly suited to men more than women so its never been an issue? Slightly harder to balance your average racer as a small female as you have more buoyancy = less stability but that’s only racer boats which you need a decent base skill level to use for more than 30 seconds, at whcih point custom is normal. It’s not a big difference, at 8.5 stone im bottom end of the spectrum and i never really noticed. I dont quite get this one? I would have thought it one of the most gender neutral sports (except that it gives guys amazing triangular torsos).

Another question prompted by earlier posters: why is there so often a core assumption that whatever the (shifting, in the big picture) interests of male youths are, these should be the aspirational interests of female youths? "Girls can skateboard too!": of course, but is there an underlying assumption that skateboarding (being stereotypically a masculine interest) is inherently more worthwhile than gymnastics equipment (being stereotypically feminine)?
I think there should certainly be an underlying assumption that skateboarding is worthwhile so they should look at why girls don’t skate. They should also provide options for things girls already do, but it’s like University. There are and should be programs to encourage girls into maths because it’s worthwhile. Of course they should still be supported to do nursing or something else much more typically female biased. (I did maths, so I naturally think this one is important!)

I think this is an amazing campaign!

I wanted to highlight that there also boys who don’t fit into stereotypes around male attributes who don’t feel comfortable in these spaces either.

I can see my dn aged 9 who is not destined to be an alpha male already feels uncomfortable.

Not sure what can be done about that but definitely an issue.

Really interesting OP, thanks.

The thing that's always struck me about skate parks is that a lot of girls and also younger children might like to use them, with scooters and roller-skates as well as skateboards but, given they're in use by teenage boys with skateboards and BMXs all day, on any suitable day, when does anyone else get a chance to have a go, or to learn and practice?

If you are already a competent skater and a confident person, then sure you can plunge in and try to 'hold your own' with the boys. But how do you become competent?

Last summer I was out with my early-rising child at 7-8am and we walked past the local skate park. Two or three teenage girls were practising. I thought 'ah, that's how they do it, they fit themselves into the margins, around the boys and go at times when nobody else is there.

The whole question of 'what would you get if you ask teenage girls' is fascinating. It's so easy and so stupid to follow the line of 'we don't see girls trying to use these facilities, they're all at home, in the gym or at the shops, that's what they want to do, therefore they're not interested in outdoor sport', without ever considering what sorts of sports and activities girls would do if the facilities were made available.

I used to like playing tennis with friends as a tween. I think the fact you could book a court for a fixed time and everyone knew and respected that system, worked. It was simple and stress free.

@Sillydoggy Yes, all-girls schools are really interesting - I spoke to a landscape designer who'd done a really interesting adventure area for a secondary school which was all girls. Must remember this.

@Foxhasbigsocks Totally agree, but we can only legally challenge the councils on the grounds of sex under the Equality Act. But not only girls will benefit.

@lottiegarbanzo Yup. They're not alone. Here's a skate park designer talking

I was chatting recently to a female ramp skater, in her early 20s, she very casually mentioned, as though it was of no consequence that she only uses the ramps early morning, or odd times. Because of the large groups of boys and young men that she feels makes for a hostile atmosphere. It seems that individually the lads are supportive, to a female practicing but she still feels unable to practice in front of them as a group.
I know the park she uses, and it is one large half pipe, and a couple of slide rails. Anyone sitting on the top of the halfpipe has a view of the whole skatepark, so big groups of non- skating hangers on tend to hang out there heckling.

This is so interesting! Is there any evidence about a shift in usage of public space amongst girls during lockdown? As boys are not allowed to gather in big groups (not saying they don't), and girls have no option but to get outside to parks if they want to meet a friend, etc?

There has been evidence of girls doing better and boys worse out of lockdown, in terms of fitness. Because girls have benefitted from time at home to do online workouts and dance things, whereas boys have lost team sports.

That may sound like it supports the 'girls don't want to go outside anyway' narrative but, when you're only allowed out once a day (and may want to use that to walk and talk with a friend), perhaps it lends stronger support to the 'there isn't anything interesting or useful outside for girls, it's all football pitches' and 'actually girls do enjoy exercise, when given the opportunity to do a kind they like' argument.

Thinking about it, I saw a lot of exercise classes moving into a nearby park last summer. Martial arts for kids, a group of post-retirement-aged ladies doing yoga, plus the usual military fitness groups (mostly 30-40-something women) but no groups of teenage girls, or 20-somethings. I think there's a lot of self-consciousness at that age, that evaporates later.

Sorry I missed your reply to me OP. I'll send a message to the website tomorrow.

Really inspiring thread, I got a lot from the OP and PPs. Am moved to re-address the playground space issue with our school again (I have complained that boys chose the activities and got the lion’s share of space, they shrugged shoulders). Will keep an eye on your charity and the book too.

Fantastic initiative!

Years ago a friend who was a Community Youth Worker faced the problem that every single sports/leisure activity she organised was taken over by boys who made the girls feel unwelcome. So she organised parallel, identical activities specifically for girls. The boys complained about being excluded and she was forced to include them - even though they already had the same activities available at a different time.

Then she had a brainwave and started a "No Good at Football Club" open to everyone. None of the boys wanted to be associated with it so they were able to get on and do whatever activities the girls were interested in - which included some of them being pretty good at football.

Ridiculous to have to have to do anything like that but the girls knew what it was all about and liked that they were not only able to do what they wanted in peace but were secretly taking the mickey out of the boys at the same time

I'm so l pleased to see this OP. I've been on your website and followed you on twitter.

As a mother of 2 girls I have had my experience of fighting with their primary school over the disparity between girls/boys sports and the domination of the playground and sports cage by the boys. Now older teens I have seen their world shrink as the world grows for teenage boys.

We have commonland near us which has been a good golf for almost 100 years. The space has been reclaimed by the people during lockdown and I have mused how that it ought to be given back to the people to use. But I realise its been so well used by all - families, older people, lone females, teenage girls, dog walkers - because of the feeling of safety of many people around, which won't be the case post-covid when adults have other places to exercise and things filling their time. Then, as before, the only people who will use it are the groups of teenage boys who periodically start small fires. So, as well as spaces being designed for girls, they also need to be in locations which help foster a sense of safety.

This is only slightly related but I think demonstrated how little some men understand how easily intimidated females are by males. Several years ago my train was delayed and got into the station when there were fewer people around, although it s only around 6.30pm. As I approached the multi storey car park there s no one else around but there were a group of males, at least 5 of them, using the car park to skate in and gather. I tried to go in a few times but started to panic. There wno way to get to my car without me walking towards them. I eventually went to the station staff and a man accompanied me but on the way to my car he asked me 'did they say something to you?' And I realised he didn't understand that females can be scared by the presence of males, without them having to have said or done something threatening.

Finally, I remember seeing on Twitter a park that had been designed by girls. I thought it was in Barcelona but I can't find it now. It looked very different to a regular park. I guess no-ones asked them before what they want.

Marking my place. Female unfriendly public spaces are a bug bear of mine.

Morning.

@CamomileTease I haven't seen any data yet but it will be an interesting question to ask when we have some focus groups going. Anecdotally, I think that because the parks are full of everyone, they feel safer for girls.

@lottiegarbanzo Good point. I will remember that.

@MoleSmokes That is genius. Could you DM me and tell me roughly where that is as I'd love to be able to talk about it. It's such a brilliant demonstration of how boys colonise everything.

@Ifonlyus Yes, I agree, and some of the initiatives which have been tried in Europe to make parks more girl friendly are about safety - lighting, perimeter paths and wider openings into spaces so girls don't feel trapped. And yes, I understand your story completely. In my other life/other thread about writing about women walking I've linked to some excerpts from the book I am writing, but here you go:

"Ahead of me, I’ve seen a man on the slopes but then he disappears. He’s dressed for running and unlikely to be a danger but you never know. He should have come a way down the track by now, but he’s disappeared. Has he hidden behind the bank? I approach slowly, approaching up a steep bit of the banks so that I can see him before he sees me. Then it’s fine because another couple are climbing the stile in the next field, coming this way too. I’m on alert, processing all these movements like a deer in an open field. When I do see him again, he’s sitting on the grassy bank in sunshine, cordless headphones on, talking to someone about opportunities in the pharmaceutical industry. He has not had to think even once about the people around him, and I hate him for it."

Women do this all the time and men don't even notice. There's more here, but mostly about other things:

tenderfoot.co.uk/invitations-archive/susannah-walker-the-hard-way/?fbclid=IwAR05IBzOo3d_XAPXf0tG_SKW-fS7mD1yLUaYs5q-fNeKpgUvVZQmKpgpUXE

There are parks designed for girls in Barcelona and Vienna, and one designed by girls in Malmo. Someone linked to a good piece upthread on the Malmo one, which is here

charter-equality.eu/exemple-de-bonnes-pratiques/urban-planning-on-girls-conditions.html

The last couple of pages of our research document give you a bit more detail.
makespaceforgirls.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Make-Space-for-Girls-Summary-of-Research-findings-December-2020-web.pdf
I'm going to put some more info and links up on the website when I get a moment.

And yes, we are very much on Twitter - twitter.com/MakeSpaceforGi1
Please do follow us there as there will be updates.

Again, when there is time I will also be sorting out a Mailchimp newsletter. But there are just two of us and we do other things as well so it's not moving at warp speed. Yet.

Great work .

This is so interesting. DD is just entering pre-teens and got a skateboard for Christmas. She was excited to go to the local skate park and she tried to persevere, bless her, but the double whammy of just starting out and a bunch of 17 year olds smoking and drinking there was too much

Oh school playgrounds, yes. I was lucky as a child that my primary school had enough, differentiated outdoor spaces to allow everyone space for a range of physical activities. This has been a problem in the past year though, with playgrounds sub-divided into small 'bubble areas'. Are you collecting material on school playgrounds OP?

As pp mentioned, this stuff affects the 'non sporty' boys too. The ones who don't play football, or skateboard but might enjoy tennis, climbing, swimming etc. I think a lot of the 'enjoy exercise but not team sports' boys and girls are the ones who get into running as adults.

Part of the problem is the way that, in (state) schools especially but not only, sport is often seen as the antithesis of academic activity. With limited resources the staff focus attention only on the top sports performers. Pp's point about needing to provide different activities for the less talented kids, not poor versions of the same old team sports, really rings true, from my own secondary experience. The idea that the very academically focussed ones really need exercise that suits them, to stay healthy, help control stress levels and keep them on an even keel isn't always there.

It would be brilliant if your campaign could mobilise material to make use of changes experienced during lockdown, as a springboard for change. Similar to the shift in perspective that followed foot and mouth in 2001, which brought to the fore the fact that leisure uses of the countryside were far bigger, economically, than farming. That changed some of the land management initiatives the government was willing to pay for (not just to provide access directly but to support wildlife and other public goods).

what a brilliant initiative this is, and all based in real, provable research.

thank you for driving this on OP

I agree wholeheartedly about competitive sport.
My DD (14) was very successful in her chosen sport and hated school PE lessons. She asked if she could take a lesson one day and did a pilates class for the group. Every single person joined in and enjoyed it.

She had done it because there were 2 girls who were never able to join in anything and were always just told to keep the score or set up/clear away. These 2 girls joined in and enjoyed the class. Unfortunately DD was only allowed to do it once.

Brilliant work, OP. I'm a lifelong feminist and well aware of the benefits of outdoor exercise. But even so, I was wondering why girls needed different provision. Your research section was an eye opener. I just hadn't thought about it that way before.

And now I'm starting to remember how I loved playing in parks and other public green spaces with my friends when I was a child -- but I have no similar memories from my teenage years...

Best of luck with this important campaign.

makespaceforgirls.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Make-Space-for-Girls-Summary-of-Research-findings-December-2020-web.pdf

Make space and/or time for girls, perhaps? Like women only swimming hours. Perhaps girl only skating sessions, or a recognised women's night on the pitch and make sure it gets used?
I love the idea of a stage, and that girls have been asked for ideas.

make space and/or time for girls, perhaps? Like women only swimming hours.

I can see an issue emerging around this in the current climate.

This is ticking over in my mind, so another thought. The crime prevention element of providing facilities for teenage boys, youths, is very real. Far better have them loitering at a skate and basketball park, in plain sight (and maybe the design intention is for them to be visible, not vigilant), than doing graffiti, drugs, stealing cars or something (though how loitering at skate parks prevents selling and doing drugs, or planning other escapades, I'm not sure).

But, isn't this idea predicated on some rather old-fashioned notions of what the youths would be doing otherwise? That marauding outdoors in groups is the natural way of youths? That's very pre-digital. Wouldn't many of them be at home playing computer games, remotely, together, now?

I'm thinking of the reasons scouts and cubs became mixed-sex. Because not enough boys wanted to do all that active, practical, outdoor-focused stuff any more.

Girl-Guiding has not had that problem. They're probably not always as outdoor-focused as Scouts but do do camping, outdoor games in summer, trips to climbing walls and adventure activity places. Plus, girls have chosen to join Cubs and Scouts.

That seems to make a case that girls are more interested in doing sporty, outdoor, group activities than boys. Not less.

So I do think that there is a flawed, outdated assumption at the base of focusing outdoor activity provision on boys and youths, which is that the natural habitat of youths, especially the troublesome ones, is outdoors. Beyond that, far more broadly, that the natural inhabitants of urban outdoor space, whose use of that space can be managed by design, are male.

Perhaps things have now switched around? Teenage boys are now more likely to stay at home, with their tech, while teenage girls are more likely to gather in real-life groups, so are the more natural inhabitants of outdoor public space.

I know our Council's youth services provide a lot of indoor activities, music and digital things which seem more in line with what teenagers want.

Then though, there's the concern that everybody should have the opportunity to get some exercise. But isn't gym fitness more appealing to most teen boys and young men? Those not already involved in team sports, or uninterested in any sport at all. The sub-set of teen boys actually interested in the type of outdoor, public-space provision offered, seems small.

This is a fascinating thread and a brilliant campaign, well done!

Growing up in the 80s, I can also attest to the school playground being dominated by boys. There was a large tarmac ‘pitch’ marked out for netball or football and a much smaller paved area with concrete benches. The pitch was always used by boys and if any girls dared to cross it or try and use it, they would be punched, kicked or have balls kicked at them. Like another poster, on one occasion some teacher decided to force the inclusion of girls but it ended with us having cricket balls, tennis balls and footballs ‘accidentally’ hitting us in the face.

This thread has really made me think about the provision of play areas and next time I’m at one of the local parks, I will take a look.

With this in mind, I've been looking at our local provision and council leisure strategy. Would you believe... the teen-specific provision is skate parks, basketball pitches and BMX tracks.

Looking at the leisure strategy, what hits me is that it is largely about sport and that means organised sport, with governing bodies, who can be consulted. Skateboarding is shoehorned in to that. A lot of this sport takes place in parks but countryside and nature is a separate strategic area.

What I notice is that physical leisure activities that are not formal sport, don't get much of a look-in. So doing yoga in the park, showing your friends your gymnastic moves on the adult exercise-trail equipment, informal scooting, cycling and roller-skating, would seem to fall between the strategic cracks. I'm reading on, to check how true that is.

It strikes me that there's big overlap with the roles sport and leisure so often play here on the relationship board. That is, men's sport is formalised, team-based or goal-oriented. They're a member of a cricket, rugby or football team (so have to turn out every Saturday, all afternoon, or they'd be letting people down). Or they're training for a marathon or trying to beat some specific Strava cycling goal. Yes, women do those things too but not in such great numbers, or without considering taking a break during the baby and toddler years.

Women's leisure activities are often less well-defined, more varied and more social. That can include the physical, exercise-related ones. They might go to classes, maybe try different ones from time to time, like walking with friends, go swimming when they can fit it in.

In the relationships-board context, I often think that the widows need to say 'well my important hobby is socialising with my friends, visiting shops, cafes and sometimes swimming. I need five hours a week to devote to this, or I'm letting them and myself down. This will happen on Wednesday evening and Saturday morning, so you're fine to have the kids then aren't you, good.' But because their leisure activities are less formal and more flexible, it is easy for both them and their partners to regard them as less important and as things that happen only if there's time left after everything else is done.

I think you're noticing the spatial equivalent of this phenomenon.

Wider swings.... I remember once my hips and backside filled out at puberty, swings dug in ...