Correct term

[earlyforties]

What is the correct term to use for a woman who doesn't like other women? She is the opposite of a feminist. She panders to men & treats women horribly & as if they're not equal to men. Can a women be called chauvinistic or is there a different term?

Internalised misogyny?

Sexist misogynist.
Not 'chauvinist', that's excessive, prejudiced support for your own group.

Women can be misogynistic.

Male-identified?

Thanks for the replies. I've googled Internalised misogyny & this describes the person exactly.

I call those women “patriarchal women.” I try to have compassion because we’re all socialised and conditioned into femininity. I mean- women are socialised ...

@QueenoftheAir

I call those women “patriarchal women.” I try to have compassion because we’re all socialised and conditioned into femininity. I mean- women are socialised ...

She is quiet old fashioned in her ways like she says things like "husband babysat for me" or "husband helps me around the house" even though they were both working full time. Or "I couldn't expect husband to iron his own shirts". That's fine if she wants to live as a 1950s housewife, that's her choice. It's the way she treats other women that I have a problem with. She's very hateful if they achieve anything, she body shames them. Takes pleasure in their misfortunes. She calls them ball busters if they don't pander to their husbands. I'm so happy I've found the correct name for this. Now I just need to learn how to deal with her when she targets me.

I’ve always seemed to have women like that where I’ve worked. I just called them the Queen-B or Gorgonzola (overpowering, not particularly pleasant).

It's good if it's useful to recognise a mechanism or dynamic, OP, but I think it may be worth extending your consideration to the underlying reasons why this happens. Never forget that people attcking others in this way will be doing so from their own senses of pain, inadequacy, pressure and fear.

Maybe practice laughing at anything she says to you about your behaviour etc. If she’s a friend, I’d be distancing myself. If she’s a relative or immediate family member, then that’s tougher, but laughing as if “Oh you are a card” might just deflect her nastiness.

But it’s interesting to think about what’s at stake for her. I have a sister who used to go on and on about her home and how she couldn’t work too much because of looking after her family. It was done in a way to establish her status in relation to me - I’m a very high achiever in my career, but sacrificed home and family for it (huh! Men never have to!) and another of my siblings suggested she did this sort of boasting about her house etc etc because she actually felt a bit inadequate in terms of a stymied career ( she is hugely talented in her field, but gave a lot of it up to become a trailing spouse). BTW, I’ve never said to her that my life was superior - I always admired what she did.

So it’s tricky.

It’s a pity that patriarchy tends to set women up in competition with each other. It’s like there’s only one top spot for one woman.

I think they are sometimes called Honeybadgers, but that may be a U.S term.

It's family member in her 60s. She's married, has a nice house, is financially comfortable, retired now & has a great social life & about 4 holidays a year (pre Covid) yet she is so unhappy & bitter.

She's very unhappy with herself, all she talks about is diets & weight & seems to have a really bad relationship with food. She looks perfectly normal to me. She comments on other women's bodies negatively all of the time in a very bitchy way, she commented on my weight when I was 9 months pregnant, told me I was huge & just because I lost the baby weight the last time doesn't mean I'll be able to do it again!

She doesn't like to see women achieve anything. I failed an exam once & made the mistake of telling her. She told everyone that I'd failed but when I repeated the exam & then passed it she looked so uncomfortable & it nearly killed her to say congratulations. Of course she didn't tell anybody that I'd passed. If it was a man on the other hand she'd be full of congratulations & saying how great he is.

To be honest I'm just sick of the hurtful way she treats women & I do always call her out in it when she says horrible things about other women but when it's aimed at me I say nothing & of course I dwell on it & end up feeling really resentful 🙁

I often think it is the feminists who don't like other women: women who are "gender conforming", women who are stay at home mothers, women who do their feministing in a different way.

@toomanytrees

I often think it is the feminists who don't like other women: women who are "gender conforming", women who are stay at home mothers, women who do their feministing in a different way.

Not really the case on the MN feminism board, IMO... unsurprisingly on a forum with a large number of mothers who make various choices, and of course happening to fit or not fit various aspects of 'gender' in all sorts of ways. One size doesn't fit all, most feminists here recognise that.

It’s a pity that patriarchy tends to set women up in competition with each other. It’s like there’s only one top spot for one woman.

The interplay between patriarchy and women's lives is interesting. We trade opportunities in return for something or other that benefits men.
Worth a read: www.repealthegra.org/blog/patriarchal-bargains

Errol. Thanks for the push back. I really overstated my case. If this wasn't such a broad church, I wouldn't be here.

OP, I think “Stockholm syndrome” covers it, no?

@Babdoc

OP, I think “Stockholm syndrome” covers it, no?

I don't think so.

Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response. It occurs when hostages or abuse victims bond with their captors or abusers. This psychological connection develops over the course of the days, weeks, months, or even years of captivity or abuse

Handmaiden?

Margaret Thatcher.

earlyforties, that’s exactly what happens to women living as hostages in patriarchal homes and societies. They normalise the sexism, identity with it, internalise it. Defend their abusers from outside criticism. And turn on feminists who try to point it out to them...

@Babdoc

earlyforties, that’s exactly what happens to women living as hostages in patriarchal homes and societies. They normalise the sexism, identity with it, internalise it. Defend their abusers from outside criticism. And turn on feminists who try to point it out to them...

Thank you, this makes so much sense.

Ah, yes. Margaret Thatcher, the wrong kind of woman.

Here's John Stuart Mill, from The subjection of Women :

All men, except the most brutish, desire to have, in the woman most nearly connected with them, not a forced slave but a willing one, not a slave merely, but a favourite. They have therefore put everything in practice to enslave their minds. The masters of all other slaves rely, for maintaining obedience, on fear; either fear of themselves, or religious fears. The masters of women wanted more than simple obedience, and they turned the whole force of education to effect their purpose. All women are brought up from the very earliest years in the belief that their ideal of character is the very opposite to that of men; not self-will, and government by self-control, but submission, and yielding to the control of others. All the moralities tell them that it is the duty of women, and all the current sentimentalities that it is their nature, to live for others; to make complete abnegation of themselves, and to have no life but in their affections. And by their affections are meant the only ones they are allowed to have—those to the men with whom they are connected, or to the children who constitute an additional and indefeasible tie between them and a man.

(From the Project Gutenberg version).

The John Stuart Mill quote is interesting. But how do we know that women thought this too? History is full of men speaking about, for and to women. We don't have many women's voices. I just don't accept the idea that women were that submissive, otherwise, the church wouldn't have had to keep reminding them to be. Mill's description seems like a "luxury belief" of its time, one that represents a middle class ideal rather than on the ground reality. Women can be really good at pulling the wool over men's eyes.

@Babdoc

earlyforties, that’s exactly what happens to women living as hostages in patriarchal homes and societies. They normalise the sexism, identity with it, internalise it. Defend their abusers from outside criticism. And turn on feminists who try to point it out to them...

Agree.