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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Marjorie Taylor Greene

31 replies

arcof · 25/02/2021 13:55

Such an unfortunate turn of events that she was the one to stand up in Congress about the harmful wording in the Equality Act in the US that will replace sex as a protected characteristic with gender identity, but she did it none the less. Her arguments were awful though, she didn't make a compelling point, so it was a massive wasted opportunity, plus her general credibility is at zero, and she invoked the bible, but at least she spoke up. How do my fellow American or America transplants FWRs feel about having her as the poster child?! It's sitting very uncomfortably with me but at least it may get some people thinking?

OP posts:
lionheart · 25/02/2021 14:03

I was thinking about this and wondering when a politician who is not allied to right wing Evangelicals or even just the right, would stand up for women.

lionheart · 25/02/2021 14:11

This led to an inevitable backlash. Interesting because although Gabbard has some controversial views (against civil unions in the 1990s), she is also a Democrat, Hindi and Samoan-American.

time.com/5920758/tulsi-gabbard-bill-transgender-women-sports/

www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/democrat-tulsi-gabbard-introduces-appalling-anti-trans-legislation-targeting-trans-athletes/

merrymouse · 25/02/2021 14:31

The wing of the party that MTG represents really couldn’t care less about women’s rights, but it’s very easy to use this issue to ‘own the libs’.

MedusasBadHairDay · 25/02/2021 15:55

I don't think people like her are on our side at all. I don't get the impression she's interested in protecting women's rights (especially not if they aren't exactly like her), and is far more likely to believe everyone should conform to gender roles.

I'm not able to applaud her standing up and speaking because I think that not only does it not help, but that she probably wouldn't want it to help feminism either - I found this quote by her about feminists "They're too weak and pathetic to take care of themselves. They want a great big giant Gov't to take care of them. It's such a hypocrisy. They claim they want the future to be female, but they aren't capable of taking care of themself."

pallisers · 25/02/2021 15:59

I am in the US - liberal Northeast. even if MTG gave lucid and cogent arguments the fact that they are coming out of her mouth would do more damage than help. She is insane, bigoted and downright nasty.And as someone says, this comes from a place of real hatred and bigotry toward LGB rather than support of women (as if!)

I have never heard anyone other than religious - from conservative to extreme right wing champion women when it comes to self-id and women's spaces. Things like trans women taking women's places in sports is really not reported on. The closest I got to it was a fairly nuanced op-ed in the NYT which acknowledged that transwomen in women's sports required compromise by someone and the question was who should compromise because you can't meet both needs. We had a bathroom bill on the ballot a couple of years ago here in Massachusetts and NPR gave time to both sides of the argument - except the guy on the other side (and of course it was a guy) was clearly a conservative catholic who was mouthing stuff about women and girls being safe but didn't sound sincere. I wish they had put a woman on who had real concerns.

I doubt Nora Ephron could have published her essay on Jan Morris today.

DisgustedofManchester · 25/02/2021 16:05

There's a long list of socially conservative people who are anti-trans. they are often racist and support misgynist ideology despite being women as well as men. I see the phrase TAnon starting to be used on twitter alongside QAnon and people linking different ideologies. The number of reports of people linking Covid to being the fault of gay people and that the vaccine makes you gay is surreal.

Its the freudian ( I think ) perspective that "all dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs". Everyone who is a racist or homophobe hates trans people though not everyone who hates trans people is a racist and a homophobe. Similarly in this country with Brexit ironically.

lionheart · 25/02/2021 16:55

www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-calls-trust-science-anti-trans-poster-1572018?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1614270352

'"Your biological son does NOT belong in my daughters' bathrooms, locker rooms, and sports teams," Green wrote.'

BruceAndNosh · 25/02/2021 16:58

She's a fucking nutjob.
The last person you need defending women only spaces

GrinitchSpinach · 25/02/2021 17:14

It just makes me angrier at the cowardly or craven "progressives" I've supported all my life. Beyond frustrating.

Delphinium20 · 25/02/2021 17:29

Oh. It's a hot mess today in Democrat and mainstream feminism boards because emotions are high and Greene is the devil trying to kill trans people. They aren't necessarily wrong. However, the devil is really in the details...and in the consciousness of too many people's brains.

Greene is, by so many measures, an awful, awful human being. You don't have to be a leftist to find her behavior repugnant. Her attack on this bill is a fucking death knell to any reasonable changes that could have amended the act and changed the definition of sex.

Nobody wants to be seen as an ally of Greene. Now, instead of any reasonable compromises (like ensure no discrimination in employment/housing/education for trans people while also ensuring sex-based protections for girls and women), this poorly crafted bill will likely get passed in the House as is. Then, reasonable Senators may feel that any opposition to this bill will taint them with the likes of Greene, so it might pass in the Senate. While I don't see that as a given, I just see that Greene has made it much more difficult to argue that there is a perfectly balanced, non-religious and good reason to vote against this bill.

Once again, the voices of women and girls are drowned out by the crazy right wing conspiracy nutters and the crazy TRA wing zealots. Nobody with any sense feels safe enough to speak up.

Too many Americans are educated by religious institutions...it has distorted our civil discourse and hindered our reasoning abilities. This can be seen from comments on both sides of the debate like these: "God loves all the genders because he made LGBTQA people and they are perfect in his eyes."
"God only made two genders and it is a sin for a man to make himself a woman and for a woman to make herself a man." Confused

Seriously...many people in the US think like this and you just.can't.talk.to.them.

BelleHathor · 25/02/2021 17:43

Well she is definitely unique... Though it was funny when she put the following poster up outside her office. The memes alone on social media highlighted the issue.

In other good news Rand Paul (a Republican Senator) has just mentioned Keira Bell at the Dr. Rachel Levine hearing in front of the senate (and plans to offer surgery unquestionably to homeless kids)
m.youtube.com/watch?v=laS93iac9Ws

Marjorie Taylor Greene
Delphinium20 · 25/02/2021 17:54

BelleHathor
That is excellent news about Rand Paul. I do believe there have been some feminist reaching out to him.

"Where are the feminists?" Paul had asked.

We are here and we wish Greene would stop talking over us!!!

arcof · 25/02/2021 18:12

Very interesting view points and links, I follow this issue from a Uk point of view (mainly thanks to Mumsnet!) more than here and I feel like this topic hasn't really been in the mainstream here (US) as much as back home, and I'm exhausted at the prospect of how much effort it's going to take to get people to where I think the Uk is getting to now. I can see now that her speaking out specifically is harmful. I also find her repugnant, just to be very clear!

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OvaHere · 25/02/2021 18:23

Great post Delphinium

I honestly don't know how feminists in the US can tackle this issue with clarity when religion seems to get in the way of everything.

BelleHathor · 25/02/2021 18:29

Delphinium20 definitely 👍, big props to WOLF and Hands across the aisle, their tireless groundwork is paying off!
Of course Paul won't be allowed to see you, as you're likely an old school feminist, the kind that knows about biological sex. MSM only highlights the "Fun Feminists" (less likely to ask uncomfortable questions 😉) and unfortunately given a large and loud platform.

pallisers · 25/02/2021 19:10

Rand Paul is another piece of work.

Delphinium20 · 25/02/2021 19:37

Thanks all for U.K. support - I joined MN because of my old school feminism - which recently had been revived. I'd been so busy working full-time and caring for young kids that when I came up for air to pay attention after 17 years I was astonished at what had happened! U.K. women were already in it and I've been watching and taking notes...

Oh yes, Rand Paul isn't some big feminist, and he's primarily looking to poke holes in the Dems, but he's not an extreme evangelical religious person - he's a libertarian- which means he attempts to approach problems with reason. Now, I disagree with the majority of his policies but he's not wrong about this at all and he's approaching it in the right way (science, Kiera Bell, cultural issues, protections for vulnerable children).

But my god, where are the rest of the leaders who care about protecting children?!?!

toomanytrees · 25/02/2021 21:02

Lots of aspersions being cast. With language like this how will you reach women who are not feminists? Why are the beliefs of evangelical christians demonized whereas the beliefs of muslim women need to be protected? I also think some people on this board have never met any evangelical christians. She has a point about courage. She is willing to stand up for her unpopular "wacky" beliefs. Ideological purity will not protect women and girls.

Delphinium20 · 25/02/2021 21:38

In the US we are supposed to have separation of Church and State. I don't care what wacky beliefs any person holds in their minds but I do not want those beliefs driving policy nor informing government. I admire Macron for defending Laïcité.

pallisers · 25/02/2021 22:07

@toomanytrees

Lots of aspersions being cast. With language like this how will you reach women who are not feminists? Why are the beliefs of evangelical christians demonized whereas the beliefs of muslim women need to be protected? I also think some people on this board have never met any evangelical christians. She has a point about courage. She is willing to stand up for her unpopular "wacky" beliefs. Ideological purity will not protect women and girls.
Her beliefs aren't "wacky" (Nancy Pelosi should be executed. Hillary Clinton is a paedophile who drinks the blood of children. Obama is a muslim. Sandyhook and Parkland are staged event rather than school shootings) and I hope to god she isn't representative of what white evangelical christians actually believe.

I will do a lot for feminism but I won't lie down that that piece of trash.

Cailleach1 · 25/02/2021 22:35

Yeah, maybe he is a piece of work. However any person (even a doctor) who wishes to permanently alter healthy body parts of minors and give drugs to minors, of which long term effects are unknown, then they remind me of many pieces of work across the ages. Especially if evidence shows that most of those children will be just fine if left alone and not encouraged to carry out these things.

Oh and yes, especially the kids who have no guardians looking out for them.

Zinco · 25/02/2021 22:38

She has some crazy beliefs sure (or did until recently as she reportedly gave a sort of apology), but what was actually on the sign wasn't offensive or hateful. It's not what a GC person would say, but it's not any worse in tone. Neither do I see a problem with saying, "Your biological son doesn't belong...".

The fact that this woman:

(1) Has various bat crap crazy viewpoints
(2) Doesn't support feminism
(3) Is partly driven by the Bible and/or conservative Christianity on this issue,

She can still be sincere on this issue, and still be correct. If she has said something genuinely hateful about trans people elsewhere, OK, but it wasn't in her sign.

merrymouse · 25/02/2021 22:45

She is willing to stand up for her unpopular "wacky" beliefs.

No she isn't. She claimed that she was 'allowed to believe things that weren't true'. She couldn't even take responsibility for her poisonous actions when she made her non-apology.

The only excuse for defending her can be ignorance.

toomanytrees · 25/02/2021 23:00

I agree those statements are abhorrent. I quoted the word "wacky" from a prior post. But broad brush ill informed demonization of evangelical christians is not helpful. And neither is throwing in the word white. Would such beliefs be acceptable from black evangelical christians?

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