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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Getting our girls off the internet

72 replies

Wandawomble · 21/02/2021 04:02

Difficult night and we just found some very very dodger stuff on 8yr old stepdaughters phone. LGBTQ groups, Depression groups.
She’s been playing roblox and has all these invites along with some very odd messaging.
I’ve been saying for two years she is too young to have a phone but her actual parents weren’t listening. Finally I think the penny has dropped.

But generally adults need to be better at saying no to kids and getting them off the internet. I propose a thread on tactics to do this. Too many girls are going to be harmed by this current trend.

OP posts:
Love51 · 21/02/2021 21:25

@DateLoaf

Last year my DD was in a school assembly with years 4,5 and 6 They were asked who didn't have a phone. She said less than 10 (including her) out of about 180 8-11 year olds put their hands up I find that incredibly sad.

I would be pissed off with the school for asking them about it in such a public way. Fine to ask but ask the parents or ask the kids individually if schools need to know. Seems unfair to do it that way at ages when kids will usually want to have whatever the other kids have.

Many kids don't answer surveys honestly anyway. All that tells you is how many children answered the question that particular way at that time. It doesn't tell you that a few kids have dumb phones, others have smart phones with no SIM, that kid only has it when visiting the nrp as there is a chance the to might need to get him and his little brother as the nrp sometimes drinks while on sleeping pills. All stuff that applies to children I've worked with.
MsTSwift · 21/02/2021 21:29

We held off until year 6. It’s tricky as the worthy parents who hold off longer risk isolating their child. Depends on the child and their friendship group but for both our girls having no smartphone in year 7 would be social death.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 21/02/2021 21:49

I would be pissed off with the school for asking them about it in such a public way. Fine to ask but ask the parents or ask the kids individually if schools need to know. Seems unfair to do it that way at ages when kids will usually want to have whatever the other kids have

It was something to do with bullying as there had been issues with groups texting and ganging up on other kids.

staydazzling · 22/02/2021 06:29

@BitMuch

Some of that blog is absolutely appalling in tone, very anti parent and anti single mother, Sad

EileenGC · 22/02/2021 07:27

@Akela64

I had three girls who are now 22, 20, 20. No phones til they were 13. No smart phones til 16. This was before the days of online gaming and apps. DDs were very much the odd ones re phones and soc med. Lot of pressure from DDs and other parents. Many in the primary school playground thought I was unkind, obstinate and they did judge me. It wasn't easy to hold the line and I imagine it is much harder now.

The girls had ninetindo DS (not smart) and kindle fires (could download TV books etc for offline) . We had family laptops and ninetindo wii in sitting/dining rooms.

How did I manage it? They were told about the dangers of soc med and smart phones as soon as their friends were given them (9yo). Told they would not have phones. Told when they would be given a phone for calling and messaging, when they would have a smart phone. Phones were never a gift, not birthdays or Christmas. They were mine, given on loan. Good phone "hygiene" was essential. Not at dining table. Not instead of work (school/chores) or sleep. Poor hygiene meant no phone time. Also safety filters and an Internet timer. They were allowed to play the console in the family sitting room. No complaining from me or DH. If we didn't like it we could leave. Mostly though I had to get used to being told that I was abusive for not giving in. It seems that theme has spread to much more than phones nowadays.

With hindsight, I would do it all again. It was totally worth it.

DDs are beginning to appreciate my firm parenting and many friends who thought I was unreasonably tough have had to face negative impacts that are a lot more difficult than the tears and tantrums of tweens.

Strength to your elbow. You will make many uncomfortable. But stay convinced - you are right and they are not.

I’m of a similar age to Akela’s DDs and my parents had the same policy. I will be eternally grateful to them for sticking to it. It was one of the best parenting decisions they took.

First of all, they talked to me and explained why social media was harmful - and to be honest, I could sometimes see the effects first hand with my classmates at school.

I was given an old burner phone for the Y6 school trip when I was 10. I used to have after-school activities until very late each night (8/9pm) at a place with 1,000 other kids, so some afternoons I’d be given the phone if my mum was not going to hang around for the whole evening, so I could let her know when I was finished. The school didn’t phone parents as there were too many of us. The phone was given purely for communication purposes. I could text and phone my friends using my parents’ phones, at any point, but I couldn’t install WhatsApp or use too much credit on texts as it would soon run out.

Did I feel my parents were mean during my teenager years? Occasionally. But as teenagers we all think our parents are mean. With hindsight, I see what a great job they did and how much high school drama I avoided. I got my first smartphone with WhatsApp (which was monitored) when I was in Y10. I got an offer for uni at 15 so I obviously got a phone at that age when I had to move countries on my own.

One of my younger sisters was allowed Instagram at 13, the pressure on my parents was immense. She’s now almost 17 and regrets it so much. Is now mature enough to not use it during exam sessions (two weeks every 6 where we’re from) and blocks people she doesn’t want to get involved with, but between the ages of 13-15 her life was a drama. Toxic friendships, indecent images, got in trouble at school for passing on videos she shouldn’t have... She didn’t focus much and had lots of self-esteem issues and always wanted to fit in.

It’s so important parents enforce strict boundaries around phone and social media usage, and stick to them. My parents let me build a relationship with them so we could talk about these issues, instead of me building relationships with my phone and strangers online.

MsTSwift · 22/02/2021 09:25

Hmm that sounds great but it depends on the child. Both of mine rely heavily on their phones for social interaction if they didn’t have the phones they would be isolated - unintentionally but they would be. Then they would be miserable and they would blame us. How on earth do you deal with that? If you have a girl without many friends or very family focussed or heavily into sport lucky you my neighbors dd is like that and she genuinely isn’t bothered about her phone but ours are not like that.

We didn’t allow SM until year 8 we had tears and misery from an otherwise reasonable sensible girl petitioning for it. Every other girl had it bar a slightly quirky girl dd wasn’t friends with. Every single one. Frankly so far this has been the most difficult parenting issue we’ve had.

Beamur · 22/02/2021 09:41

I think to some extent it does depend on your child too.
DD got a smartphone at the end of yr6. When she started going out with friends for a few hours without an adult present.
I actually haven't put restrictions on her phone but have talked at length about safe behaviour online. I can't supervise her all the time, so she has to know how to keep herself safe.
I said no to WhatsApp but it was the preferred method for a group of friends she really wanted to keep in touch with. But my rules are no whole class groups - she's grateful I insisted on this. Her iPhone is linked to the same apple account that we all use, so messages are not private. She knows this.
She actually gets that we give her privacy, but if she gets any hassle we can see it and would intervene.
She had a bad experience with Roblox at primary school and deleted it but it did illustrate exactly the kind of thing we were warning her about - a friend of hers got sent lots of horrible messages which was very upsetting.
So far this seems to be working ok for us. I suspect that young teens are more compliant and maybe get a bit more secretive as they get older!

MsTSwift · 22/02/2021 09:54

I hate it as posts like the ones on here make me feel like a shit parent but banning phones would make my girls very very unhappy and would damage our relationship massively.

Rock and hard place. If anyone has solutions I would love to hear. Sadly going back to 1992 isn’t an option...

Beamur · 22/02/2021 10:41

I don't think banning works either in the main, but helping your kids understand the risks and learning to self-regulate are good skills. Don't get me wrong, DD doesn't always get it right, she's admitted to occasions of internet surfing after bedtime for example, but the consequences are she's tired and finds it harder the next day.
Not all kids can self-regulate though. The approach for each kid should be specific to them.

JackNicholson · 22/02/2021 11:57

@MsTSwift

I hate it as posts like the ones on here make me feel like a shit parent but banning phones would make my girls very very unhappy and would damage our relationship massively.

Rock and hard place. If anyone has solutions I would love to hear. Sadly going back to 1992 isn’t an option...

I know what you mean, @MsTSwift. It's impossible to feel you're getting it right.

If it helps, I work with several child psychologists and teachers who are quite permissive with this (to a point). They recognise that there are risks, but have gone a different route with regulation, prioritising certain elements of their relationship with the child (and the child's relationship with their peers).

Runnerduck34 · 22/02/2021 12:07

I have 4 DCs aged 21, 20, 17 and 13.
Phones / SM has changed so much between my eldest and youngest DC.
The peer pressure is enormous,I was probably a bit naive but with eldest DD- SM wasnt such a big issue.
Really you need to start ground rules early, you can't row back when they are teenagers and if they have older siblings they grow up faster. Mine had phones for start of secondary school, but the pressure started much earlier for the younger ones, from year 4 or 5. A lot if their classmates had them sooner, particularly if their parents had separated.
If I started again I would only do age appropriate apps,eldest DD, now 21, had Facebook at 11,all her friends did but most of them sent me a friend request!
Its much more of a problem with my 13 year old and 17 year old, I wish I'd made them charge their phones downstairs overnight, I have tried to implement this without success, I cant insist my adult children do it so the younger ones dont want to either.
I think LGBT+ is very "cool" atm for want of a better word. 2 girls in DD13 class of 28 indentify as boys, I would say that is the impact of SM as it seems disproportionate to me.

SilenceIsNoLongerSuspicious · 22/02/2021 14:57

@MsTSwift I know what you mean - it’s an ongoing balance in our house, too. I do worry my Y8 is isolated because we don’t allow WhatsApp, but on the other hand, school had to step in about bad behaviour on a WhatsApp group in Y7, and we (and she) were delighted to be well out of that one. And she can iMessage and use the Teams chat via school, so there are alternatives, but it’s a question of whether other people are prepared to use them or whether they just set up WhatsApp groups without her.

I’m clearer on not allowing Snapchat, TikTok, Insta etc because I can’t really see any benefits (other than fitting in a bit better) and I can see lots of potential issues, but it’s WhatsApp that’s the really tricky one.

In retrospect, I would have got an iPod for podcasts and music, let her have that upstairs, and never allowed the phone in her bedroom. For now, she has her phone for podcasts to go to sleep to, which isn’t an ideal habit to form, even though at the moment her phone doesn’t have any internet access overnight.

MsTSwift · 22/02/2021 17:18

My two girls socialise via these apps particularly now so for example will have a film party where they all watch a film together but in their separate houses banning them would basically mean social isolation.

Would doing so make me a better parent? Fitting in is everything when you are 13 that hasn’t changed. I wonder if those advocating no social media either have very young children or teens that are not that bothered about socialising.

ArabellaScott · 22/02/2021 17:26

you can't row back when they are teenagers

Is this really true, though? We've 'rowed back' on some issues if we decide that in hindsight our earlier approach wasn't the best. As a teen, I wish my parents had been stricter.

Fucket · 22/02/2021 17:45

I think it falls into two separate issues. Being able to communicate with friends away from school. In my childhood I’d be on the landline for an hour at a time with my dad shouting at me to get off the phone.

So if my dd can message her friends and speak to them I don’t see it as any different. Obviously it needs supervision.

I’m not letting them on entertainment media like tiktok, Instagram etc and gaming is not allowed.

They’ve actually not been exposed to much gaming so they are not that interested. They have gaming controls at after school club but have found them ‘boring’.

DaisiesandButtercups · 22/02/2021 18:30

@ArabellaScott

you can't row back when they are teenagers

Is this really true, though? We've 'rowed back' on some issues if we decide that in hindsight our earlier approach wasn't the best. As a teen, I wish my parents had been stricter.

In my experience, with teenage girls, it is very hard and I wish we had implemented a few strict ground rules from the start. There are some great ideas here which I would have used.

My youngest has found texts, calls and FaceTime are adequate for keeping in touch. Although of course that doesn’t stop her pestering me for more. She has even baked cakes with her best friend over FaceTime during lockdown, of course in normal times they would do that round each other’s houses as with watching films and so on.

haba · 22/02/2021 21:42

@MsTSwift

My two girls socialise via these apps particularly now so for example will have a film party where they all watch a film together but in their separate houses banning them would basically mean social isolation.

Would doing so make me a better parent? Fitting in is everything when you are 13 that hasn’t changed. I wonder if those advocating no social media either have very young children or teens that are not that bothered about socialising.

Mine are 12 and 15, my 15yo is particularly sociable. They have brick phones, and can text friends, but I see the fallout every day of children given access to sm when they're too young to handle it with maturity,.so we won't be changing our stance on smart phones.
SilenceIsNoLongerSuspicious · 22/02/2021 22:12

My 12yo spends hours on zoom to her friends, just chatting - she’s definitely a sociable sort. She also uses Netflix Party to watch films with her friends. What Fucket said about communication versus entertainment is pretty much where I’m at. Communication is important and I want to enable it, and find ways to make it safe. I can’t see any reason to let my dd have Insta or TikTok that outweighs the risks. She may yet persuade me to change my mind, but that’s where I am for now. If she needs access to a site or app that I’ve blocked on her phone, she can ask to see it via my phone with me watching.

I’ve re-written this post a few times, trying to articulate this stuff without coming across as judgey. I’m doing what I think is right for my DC. This is a thread to talk about this stuff, especially for our DDs. It’s not a judgement on other parents to describe how I’m going about it. And I’m well aware I may be getting it wrong - that’s why a thread like this is so useful.

MsTSwift · 22/02/2021 22:18

It’s very isolating to hold out. We held out against SM and smart phones as long as we could but everyone and I mean pretty much everyone bar a few outliers whose children were not at all sociable gave in. Even parents who are my good friends with similar values -they all got their kids phones. Making it very very difficult to hold the line. So we caved.

haba · 23/02/2021 00:58

Conversely, DD has friends that have been so overwhelmed by the sheer volume of messages on WhatsApp that they've just switched off their phones each lockdown. These are girls that in normal times are very sociable, and are on sm daily usually.

Palindromic · 28/02/2021 08:23

Thanks for your post @EileenGC - it’s a really helpful perspective. All of these decisions are difficult, but I remember a friend saying to me long ago, when our (now early teens) were toddlers, “You’re not bringing your kids up to be popular at school.”

In my experience (I’m a secondary school teacher and previously a Designated Safeguarding Lead) the damage done by these devices far outweighs their social benefits. My daughters may not always like my decisions, but they understand them. And they will be living with the consequences of my decision-making through their teens and into adulthood. Missing the WhatsApp party is disappointing, but they’ll get over it. Being exposed to violent pornography, having explicit images of yourself shared widely, being sexually exploited by adult strangers - that damage takes longer to repair.

PopperUppleton · 28/02/2021 12:05

A friend of mine recently commented that her concentration span is much reduced through only reading bite-sized bits of text for the majority of the time these days. She set herself a challenge to read a whole book but found it difficult to remember what had happened in previous chapters.

I find exactly the same and so am trying to read more. I find my concentration is improving and so is my memory. So what on earth social media is doing to teenagers' cognitive skills, never mind their safety, sense of self, exposure to porn and bullying is very worrying. The schools that make children hand in phones in the morning and give them back at home time have it right, in my opinion.

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