Sperm frozen before surgery

[OhHolyJesus]

I was thinking about the boys in the GIDS study who wanted to freeze their sperm. I think there were 3 and all failed so even with surrogacy becoming easier in some countries/states these boys will not become biological parents.

Here is a story of an adult, I found it in relation to surrogacy. This person is a Dr in India.

I was struck by the options available to adults with mature gametes and the level of trauma those poor boys likely experienced and will continue to and how this adult has approached this.

"A transwoman, who was born as man in Gujarat and grew up to become a doctor, wants to give birth to a child with her own frozen semen. She is planning to undergo an enabling surgery.
"If everything goes well and the uterus transplant is done well, I can conceive my own baby through the IVF. I want to be a mother of my own child or I will go for surrogacy to become a mother," Dr Jensoor Dayara told India Today.
Daraya, 25, is Gujarat's first transwoman doctor. She earned an MBBS degree from a Russian university. She was born in Godhra town in the Panchmahal district of Gujarat.
She told India Today that she planned to settle abroad as there were no strict laws for surrogacy and pregnancy.
The surrogacy bill, which was passed in 2019 by the Lok Sabha, does not allow a single male or a lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) couple or those in live-in relationship to opt for surrogacy.
The young doctor said she has embraced the beauty of education and awareness to be who she is today. "It took me a lot of courage to accept myself, and make my family and society accept me," Dayara said.
"As a tyke, I used to wear sarees and use lipstick just like my mother and sister. However, I kept these feelings inside because I didn't want to hurt her family. I have now embraced my reality and dared to live the way I want to. By this year or maybe next year I will have surgery, and will officially become a woman," Dayara added."

How can someone with a medical qualification not understand that a uterus is connected to a female body? You can't just put it in a man and expect it to work. Its ludicrous. There's a reason why this kind of procedure is banned. No ethics committee would approve the surgery as it would not be in the best interests of the fetus.

I can't seem to C&P so attach the link but this trainee dr believes a loving heart makes a mother, not a uterus so presumably this person's grip or understanding of biology, specifically pregnancy and birth is errr...loose.

www.medicaldialogues.in/obstetrics-gynaecology/in-the-pursuit-of-parenthood-a-transwoman-doctor-cryopreserves-semen-before-sex-change-surgery-74710

Perhaps she's a massive Monty Python fan. Like Stan

So if a uterus transplant worked, this doctor would be the mother and father of their child?

Presumably their understanding of how babies are created is sound enough.
I am curious about the womb transplant though - I didn't think any had been done with men (the ethics is mind boggling) but only a handful of times, between related females and only for the duration of the pregnancy?
Where would you get a womb from...??

Has there ever been an instance of a live birth (or even confirmed pregnancy) in a male mammal with a transplanted uterus?

You know, like a mouse or a pig or a dog?

That's how these things normally start - proof of concept in an animal model.

No?

I can only find plastic surgeons making vague handwaving statements about how it shouldn't be too difficult (how would they even know - I suspect a little more difficult than bags of saline or silicone implanted under the skin, or inverted penisis that don't have to be functional).

Where would you get a womb from...??

The body of a dead woman.

I believe it is possible to transplant a womb from a living woman to another living woman, as the recipient has enough of her own reproductive organs to make it possible. However, far more of the donor's reproductive organs would need to be transplanted into a male body in order to make such a procedure even hypothetically possible that the donor would need to be deceased first.

Apologies, I'm not strong on the science. Someone with a better understanding can explain more clearly!

I don't think it can be done yet as the person would be on so many drugs to prevent rejection which probably are toxic to a growing fetus, definitely no tests would be done to test their safety-it would be so unethical for this reason let alone any other. In the article they mention a gestational carrier so assume that means a surrogate.

*Has there ever been an instance of a live birth (or even confirmed pregnancy) in a male mammal with a transplanted uterus?

You know, like a mouse or a pig or a dog*

Even if there was, it doesn't necessarily mean that it would work in humans. The human pelvis is shaped differently in males and females due to the fact that humans walk upright and so the pelvis needs to be able to support the growing foetus in pregnant women, I doubt that a human male's narrow pelvis would be able to support a full term pregnancy without causing some serious damage to the internal organs.

If there is an ethics committe anywhere in the world which would approve this, this species is on its way out.

This kind of thing makes me so angry.

I was pregnant for the first time nearly 30 years ago. For the duration of the pregnancy I didn't drink coffee, I hardly drank tea, I had no alcohol, I was reluctant to take over the counter medication if I had a headache or a cold. I continued to be extremely cautious about what I ingested during the year or so I was breastfeeding. If I'd been on a complex mix of artificial hormones I would have seriously questioned whether it was safe for me to conceive at all. My baby's safety was absolutely paramount.

Where are these considerations in these fantasies about natal males giving birth by means of an implanted uterus? It would be an extremely high risk undertaking for the male person undergoing the implant, but for the baby conceived through IVF and implanted into the uterus the chance of being nurtured to full term and safely delivered would be next to nil. How can this be condoned? Why aren't HCPs and philosophers and just about everybody with a professional interest here saying a very firm 'NO' to these ludicrous pie in the sky discussions?

There have been live births from uterine transplants in women. I think there have been more than one since this was from 2018 but before that there were many unsuccessful attempts, as in miscarriage and the ethics around this and even the ethical approval is questionable I think.

After the birth the donated uterus from a dead woman was removed and immunosuppressants were no longer taken.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31766-5/fulltext

The last attempt in a man was Lille Elbe who died as a result though I think the cause of death was meant to be pneumonia but it was connected to the surgery.

"The exact number of operations Einar underwent to become a woman varies a little across reports, but most list the number at four or five. They were carried out over a period of roughly two years. The first involved removing his testicles (castration). It took place in 1930 in Berlin under the supervision of Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld at the German Institute for Sexual Science. The remaining surgeries were performed at the Dresden Municipal Women's Clinic by Dr. Kurt Warnekros (portrayed in the movie by Sebastian Koch), a German obstetrician. They included operations to remove the penis (penectomy), create a vagina, and implant an ovary onto the abdominal musculature. The final surgery was to transplant a womb (uterus) into Einar's body, which ultimately proved fatal. -Telegraph.co.uk"

"It took me a lot of courage to accept myself, and make my family and society accept me

It took a Hella lot of plastic surgery mate, Is that "courage" nowadays?

No mention of where the egg is coming from. Is it donor eggs? Is it the eggs from this person's wife? It's all mememe really.

The final surgery was to transplant a womb (uterus) into Einar's body, which ultimately proved fatal. -Telegraph.co.uk"
OP’s posts:

So disturbing

Yes! Poor success rate in natal females, whose bodies have evolved to go through pregnancy. Male bodies are not adapted in any way to go through this.

If there's money going spare to fund research into reproductive medicine, put it towards repeated miscarriages, pre-eclampsia and so on - surely?

Anyone in Scotland maybe needs to check their wombs haven't just been co-opted by the government for anything like this following the new 'opt-out' instead of 'opt in' approach to organ donation..

I think it was confirmed that reproductive organs were specifically exempted from the opt in system, but it probably needs to be checked periodically.

Whatever I would have put here would have been reported and deleted.

@greatpurplepolkadots

Anyone in Scotland maybe needs to check their wombs haven't just been co-opted by the government for anything like this following the new 'opt-out' instead of 'opt in' approach to organ donation..

I would assume its similar to the opt out system in England which excludes newer/rarer types of transplant like reproductive organs/face/hands.

Full list is here:
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/opt-out-organ-donation-organs-and-tissues-excluded-from-the-new-system/organs-and-tissues-to-be-excluded-from-the-opt-out-organ-donation-system-quick-read

I wonder if there was a cry of transphobia at the omission of female sex organs in that list?
Only females should have a say in whether female sex organs can be included and males for male sex organs.

In my opinion, it is envy of the female capacity to gestate and birth young that underpins misogyny. It therefore stands to reason that men seek to emulate this capacity.

@Xpectations

So if a uterus transplant worked, this doctor would be the mother and father of their child?

No because they are still incapable of producing an egg.

Like the womb that would also need to be donated.

Having said that the idea of womb implants into men is far from a possibility medically right now.

As pp's have pointed out is designed to reside in a female body and there the obstacles of male body implantation are massive even ignoring the ethics of such a procedure (which is essentially experimenting on a foetus).

Women's immune response to a fetus also needs to be taken into consideration...we are more likely to have autoimmune diseases like lupus etc because of our ability to grow an alien (to us) being inside. This immune response is different to men (one of the reasons men have been particularly badly hit by Covid is theoretically because of their different immune responses) ......

I was thinking about the female bodies immune response to pregnancy. It's one of the many changes in our bodies that allows pregnancy to happen. Women automatically suppress their usual immune response throughout pregnancy to prevent the fetus from being expelled. It affects everything in our bodies that is regulated by that system - hair, teeth, etc. Failure for that system means miscarriages. A friend of mine is unable to carry a child because her immune response doesn't reduce sufficiently. She had multiple miscarriages before it was diagnosed.
Pregnancy is hard on the body.

Pregnancy is indeed hard on the human body. Women are endurance specialists because of it.

Ultimate limit of human endurance found www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48527798