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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

510 replies

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 19/02/2021 08:20

Again. I know Hibo has put out more than one video clarifying that her focus is on women and girls and on stopping FGM, but she did another one last night after being piled on and called a hater for not being 'inclusive' in her language.
mobile.twitter.com/HiboWardere/status/1362100744216866825
I am bloody angry about it this morning.
Hibo Wardere is a personal hero of mine for the amazing work she's done.
Attacking her for not focusing on other issues is the lowest of the low. The misogyny is rank.
(Also, if anyone hasn't got her book 'Cut' on their feminist book shelf, I really do recommend it. It's not an easy read but I found her journey incredibly inspiring).

OP posts:
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Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 31/03/2021 13:14

@Floisme

You are complaining that a campaign against female genital mutilation does not address the feelings of women who wish they were men, while at the same accusing us of 'absolute obsession with transgender issues'?

Righto.

Yep.
Datun · 31/03/2021 13:16

I believe it was Nora Imlau who had the problem with that, actually.

Is that the person who claims FGM excludes transwomen?

Apart from anything else, a normal reaction to being excluded from FGM would be thank fuck for that.

Not, er, complain about it.

Scepticaltank · 31/03/2021 13:16

"she is clearly slightly transphobic"

man repeatedly slurs woman on feminist board to apparently burnish his feminist credentials

Why anyone is continuing to feed this particular energy sucker I don't know. He's just going to carry on slurring a woman because he's found an excuse to do it on a feminism board where the mods wont stop him.

HermioneMakepeace · 31/03/2021 13:18

Apart from anything else, a normal reaction to being excluded from FGM would be thank fuck for that. Not, er, complain about it.

@Datun You always manage to hit the nail on the head.

PotholeParadies · 31/03/2021 13:20

@Datun

I believe it was Nora Imlau who had the problem with that, actually.

Is that the person who claims FGM excludes transwomen?

Apart from anything else, a normal reaction to being excluded from FGM would be thank fuck for that.

Not, er, complain about it.

That was the one who said Hibo should call it violence against "cis women and girls".

People pointed out that transboys had clitorises too and her proposed wording would exclude them, and she said, oh good point.

PotholeParadies · 31/03/2021 13:24

God I was so utterly furious about that one.

I don't think she should be lecturing anyone about inclusive language after that.

ArabellaScott · 31/03/2021 13:39

What is it you're trying to achieve here, DadJoke?

Perhaps your energies would be better spent campaigning in Somalia. You could start an information campaign to explain to children that having their genitals cut shouldn't stop them from identifying as they please?

Then you could just let women focus on helping each other and helping girls, instead of trying to police our language, thoughts, campaigns and bodies.

I mean, it's heroic that you're here, on a feminist board, fighting for the rights of hypothetical transmen who have suffered FGM, (whether or not they actually exist) and educating women about what language we should use to describe our selves, our bodies, and our experiences. But I think we are probably okay without your input, thanks.

CharlieParley · 31/03/2021 14:25

Collecting data on trans men in particular in that region is very hard, but there is some information here.

Not information gleaned from finding, let alone talking to them. The only time they are mentioned on their own, not subsumed into a general LGBT group (or SOGIESC as these researchers call it) is on page 63:

No targeted services for trans men were identified, despite their having complex protection, health, and other needs. Trans men may be targeted for rape and forced marriage, and some have children as a result. Yet they are often uncomfortable accessing sexual and reproductive health services oriented to women, and may be isolated from other refugees with diverse SOGIESC and therefore not attuned to available services. “Olivia,” a trans refugee woman, said, “Trans men want to be alone and stay by themselves. We don’t meet them very often. They want to be in their own safe space as trans men.”

I have quoted the passage in full, because it tells us two things: female transgender people exist in the region and there are so few of them that not only could these researchers not find any (they couldn't find individuals and they couldn't find any groups or communities of them), but although there are now a number of services and organisations supporting male transgender people, there are none for female people.

That the researchers couldn't find any female transgender people to talk to is remarkable, because they did manage to find and speak to hundreds of male victims of rape, including male homosexual victims and male transsexual victims, all of whom come from a culture where being known as a male victim of sexual violence comes with extreme social repercussions for the entire family of a victim. That suggests the problem did not lie with the researchers not being able to build trust within the community, but with the vanishingly small numbers of female transsexuals in their target region.

From reading the report it is also clear that the people being interviewed are homosexual transsexuals. The prevalence of homosexual transsexuals amongst the female sex is 1 in about 34,000. Not 1 in 100. (The estimate in the US is 1 in 2000 to 1 in 100,000.)

This is not hard to explain - in the region, the doctrine of gender identity hasn't gained traction yet, so the few people who do socially transition do so because they are transsexual and seeking to minimise their gender dysphoria by doing so. (Access to medical transition is extremely limited, and many transsexual people find accessing general healthcare very difficult, too, due to discrimination, motivated mostly by homophobia.)

We haven't argued that female transgender people do not exist in the region, of course, but that they are so vanishingly rare in the communities Hibo is trying to reach, that there is no logical reason for her to change her language to appease followers of the doctrine of gender identity. Especially when this hinders the clarity of her message: this is something only women and girls have to endure. And only women and girls.

DadJoke · 31/03/2021 14:39

If anyone is interested in donating, this is the FGM charity I support. They front and centre women, and do great work on the ground.

www.orchidproject.org/get-involved/donate/#donate

NiceGerbil · 31/03/2021 14:47

Yes, another poster on the thread has already posted about the orchid project.

LitCritChick · 31/03/2021 14:54

@Justhadathought

Ayaan Hirsi Ali also writes about her own experiences of FGM in The Caged Virgin

Here is a non-exhaustive list of resources for survivors of FGM, children and those who want to learn more about it.

● Hibo’s memoir: ‘Cut: One Woman’s Fight Against FGM in Britain today”

● My Body, My Rules - A handbook for primary school aged children

● SafeHands: a charity that promotes access to sexual and reproductive health and rights information, and works with Hibo.

● Forward: The Foundation for Women’s Health, Research, and Development (FORWARD) is a global charity that works with African women and girls towards ending child marriage, FGM, and violence against women.

● The Five Foundation: Co-founded by FGM survivor Nimco Ali, the Five Foundation is a global partnership to end female genital mutilation (FGM). It works to ensure increased collaboration and increased awareness of FGM as an urgent global issue, and to leverage increased resources for the movement to end FGM.

● The Dahlia Project: Provides a support group for women who have undergone FGM, alongside individual counselling.

● The Orchid Project: A charity advocating to end the silence and taboo around FGM and campaigning to end the practice.

Thank you to this poster for giving the information. I've recently read Cut. I'm in absolute awe that Hibo has managed to turn her personal trauma into positive action, especially considering how many barriers she had to overcome. Not least teaching herself English, which makes policing of her language particularly abhorrent in light of that.
R0wantrees · 31/03/2021 14:55

Hibo Wardere is an Orchid Project fellow

www.orchidproject.org/about-us/

February 6th 2021 event held to mark the International Day of zero tolerance for female genital mutilation

with Saiba Salam
Dawn French
Hibo Wardere
RosieNixon
Julia Lalla- Maharajh (founder of the Orchid Project )

"This is about women and girls. We are mothers, sisters, daughter and we are that for our whole world. We've learned how small our world is and this is our job to reach out to hold the hands of those little under five-year-old girls who may not have their own voice."

Thewhiskeronadog · 31/03/2021 14:58

Thank you for that @R0wantrees
I bought 'Cut' as a way of supporting Hibo as well. It's next on my list of books to read.

NiceGerbil · 31/03/2021 15:02

DadJoke may want to rethink- note he was prepared to donate if she changed her language.

DadJoke · 31/03/2021 15:14

@NiceGerbil

DadJoke may want to rethink- note he was prepared to donate if she changed her language.
I’m very happy she is sharing her wisdom with the Orchid Project, which acknowledges trans men and intersex people and is a trans-friendly organisation. As a result of this conversation I have donated at additional £500 to them.
R0wantrees · 31/03/2021 15:42

February 6th 2021 event held to mark the International Day of zero tolerance for female genital mutilation

UN
"Together, we can eliminate female genital mutilation by 2030. Doing so will have a positive ripple effect on the health, education and economic advancement of girls and women."
UN Secretary-General António Guterres

'Ending Female Genital Mutilation by 2030'
(extract)
"Female genital mutilation (FGM) comprises all procedures that involve altering or injuring the female genitalia for non-medical reasons and is recognized internationally as a violation of the human rights, the health and the integrity of girls and women.

Girls who undergo female genital mutilation face short-term complications such as severe pain, shock, excessive bleeding, infections, and difficulty in passing urine, as well as long-term consequences for their sexual and reproductive health and mental health.

Although primarily concentrated in 30 countries in Africa and the Middle East, female genital mutilation is a universal problem and is also practiced in some countries in Asia and Latin America. Female genital mutilation continues to persist amongst immigrant populations living in Western Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand.

In 2020, the COVID-19 pandemic has negatively and disproportionately affected girls and women, resulting in a shadow pandemic disrupting SDG target 5.3 on the elimination of all harmful practices including, female genital mutilation. UNFPA estimates additional 2 million girls projected to be at risk of undergoing female genital mutilation by 2030. In response to this disruption, the United Nations, through its UNFPA-UNICEF joint programme, has been adapting interventions that ensure the integration of female genital mutilation in humanitarian and post-crisis response.

To promote the elimination of female genital mutilation, coordinated and systematic efforts are needed, and they must engage whole communities and focus on human rights, gender equality, sexual education and attention to the needs of women and girls who suffer from its consequences." (continues)
www.un.org/en/observances/female-genital-mutilation-day

Datun · 31/03/2021 15:47

That was the one who said Hibo should call it violence against "cis women and girls".

People pointed out that transboys had clitorises too and her proposed wording would exclude them, and she said, oh good point.

Got it.

I'm not on Twitter, but a quick search showed me this tweet, which is what I thought everyone was talking about.

Nora Imlau
@planet_eltern
·
19 Feb
The problem is not that she's centering women in her work and words. The problem is that she excludes trans women from it. 'I'm a woman. Get over it.' is what trans women say too. If everyone accepted that trans women are women just like cis women, no one would take issue.

PotholeParadies · 31/03/2021 15:50

As ever, it was all about the transwomen!

She never ever thought about transmen, and it had to be pointed out to her that they existed!

R0wantrees · 31/03/2021 15:52

I'm at a loss to understand why detractors of Hibo Wardare's vital and inspirational work are being afforded any sort of attention.

A Woman's Place is breaking ground (Norwich 25th February 2019) Hibo Wardere

Scepticaltank · 31/03/2021 17:30

I'm at a loss to understand why detractors of Hibo Wardare's vital and inspirational work are being afforded any sort of attention.

I suppose when they chase mentions of her around the internet in order to school any women they find talking about her on her unacceptable "phobias" of people that have nothing to do with her work and don't come to mind when she is working, then we are going to be forced to comment on just how weird this behaviour is.

DadJoke · 31/03/2021 17:42

Almost all the signal boosting of the ill-advised transgender people who have commented to or about Wardere comes from GC feminists complaining about it.

persistentwoman · 31/03/2021 17:53

@DadJoke

Almost all the signal boosting of the ill-advised transgender people who have commented to or about Wardere comes from GC feminists complaining about it.
And men shamefully calling her transphobic Hmm
R0wantrees · 31/03/2021 17:59

Far better to 'signal boost' and discuss Hibo Wardere's work.

Fillia podcast
#116 Hibo Wardere: One Woman's Fight Against FGM

"As a six-year-old child in Somalia, Hibo Wardere was subject to the practice of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), which involves the partial or total removal of external female genitalia. FGM is a violation of a girl’s human rights that enforces sex inequality and it is estimated that more than 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone the practice.

While the FGM is concentrated in Africa, the Middle East and Asia, FGM isn't just a problem overseas: the issue is a global one. In the UK performing FGM has been illegal since 1985, and in 2003 (2005 in Scotland) it became an offence to arrange FGM outside the country for British citizens or residents. The prevalence of FGM in England and Wale is estimated to be around 137,000 women and girls.

Hibo introduces her memoir detailing her life in Somalia and the UK and sheds light on this practice, that's still being carried out in the 21st century."

December, 2020

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2020/11/27/hibo-wardere-one-womans-fight-against-fgm

Drinkingallthewine · 31/03/2021 18:00

@PotholeParadies

As ever, it was all about the transwomen!

She never ever thought about transmen, and it had to be pointed out to her that they existed!

This is what I don't understand. Hibo was piled upon for not including transwomen, by allies of the TRA.

But why would you include transwomen when it's transmen who would have been at risk as a child of FGM, given that it only is inflicted on vulva & clitorises?

Why were Transwomen even brought into this?

PotholeParadies · 31/03/2021 18:04

May I just point out that I bumped this thread to sing the praises give a product review of a t-shirt and to let people know she was going to rerun the campaign in the future?

I didn't really expect the thread to go down this track.