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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pseudo-realities, Power and Language Games

67 replies

MoleSmokes · 18/02/2021 02:14

I was away reading "New Discourses" by James Lindsay and when I came back that 50:50 thread was maxed-out. Funny, because it reminded me of the Pseudo-Realities, Power and Language Games thing. These extracts exceed the character limit so will run over more than one post.

(Oh, and I have bolded the word "power" from time to time, when I got an eerie echo of the Ghost of 50:50).

“The Nature of Pseudo-realities”

“Pseudo-realities are, simply put, false constructions of reality. It is hopefully obvious that among the features of pseudo-realities is that they must present a plausible but deliberately wrong understanding of reality. They are cult “realities” in the sense that they are the way that members of cults experience and interpret the world—both social and material—around them. We should immediately recognize that these deliberately incorrect interpretations of reality serve two related functions. First, they are meant to mold the world to accommodate small proportions of people who suffer pathological limitations on their abilities to cope with reality as it is. Second, they are designed to replace all other analyses and motivations with power, which these essentially or functionally psychopathic individuals will contort and deform to their permanent advantage so long as their pseudo-real regime can last.

Pseudo-realities are always social fictions, which, in light of the above, means political fictions. That is, they are maintained not because they are true, in the sense that they correspond to reality, either material or human, but because a sufficient quantity of people in the society they attack either believe them or refuse to challenge them. This implies that pseudo-realities are linguistic phenomena above all else, and where power-granting linguistic distortions are present, it is likely that they are there to create and prop up some pseudo-reality. This also means that they require power, coercion, manipulation, and eventually force to keep them in place. Thus, they are the natural playground of psychopaths, and they are enabled by cowards and rationalizers. Most importantly, pseudo-realities do not attempt to describe reality as it is but rather as it “should be,” as determined by the relatively small fraction of the population who cannot bear living in reality unless it is bent to enable their own psychopathologies, which will be projected upon their enemies, which means all normal people.

Normal people do not accept pseudo-reality and interpret reality more or less accurately, granting the usual biases and limitations of human perspective. Their common heuristic is called common sense, though much more refined forms exist in the uncorrupted sciences. In reality, both of these are handmaidens of power, but in pseudo-realities, this is inverted. In pseudo-reality, common sense is denigrated as bias or some kind of false consciousness, and science is replaced by a scientism that is a tool of power itself. For all his faults and the faults of his philosophy (which enable much ideological pseudo-reality), Michel Foucault warned us about this abuse quite cogently, especially under the labels “biopower” and “biopolitics.” These accusations of bias and false consciousness are, of course, projections of the ideological pseudo-realist, who, by sheer force of rhetoric, transforms limitations on power into applications of power and thus his own applications of power into liberation from it. Foucault, for any insight he provided, is also guilty of this charge.

It must be observed that people who accept pseudo-realities as though they are “real” are no longer normal people. They perceive pseudo-reality in place of reality, and the more thoroughly they take on this delusional position, the more functional psychopathy they necessarily exhibit and thus the less normal they become. Importantly, normal people consistently and consequentially fail to realize this about their reprogrammed neighbors. Perceiving them as normal people when they are not, normal people will reliably misunderstand the motivations of ideological pseudo-realists - power and the universal installation of their own ideology so that everyone lives in a pseudo-reality that enables their pathologies—usually until it is far too late.

As a result of this failure of perspective, many particularly epistemically and morally open normal people will reinterpret the claims of pseudo-reality into something that is plausible in reality under the usual logic and morals that guide our thinking, and this reinterpretation will work to the benefit of the pseudo-realists who have ensnared them. This sort of person, who stands between the real world and the pseudo-real are useful idiots to the ideology, and their role is to generate copious amounts of epistemic and ethical camouflage for the pseudo-realists.

This phenomenon is key to the success, spread, and acceptance of pseudo-realities because without it very few people outside of small psychologically, emotionally, or spiritually unwell people would accept a pseudo-reality as if it is a superior characterization of the genuine article. Clearly, the more plausible the account of pseudo-reality on offer, the stronger this effect will be, and the more power the ideologues who believe in it will be able to accrue.

Pseudo-realities may have any degree of plausibility in their distorted descriptions of reality, and thus may recruit different numbers of adherents. They are often said to be accessible only by applying a “theoretical lens,” awakening a specialized “consciousness,” or by means of some pathological form of faith. Whether by “lens,” “consciousness,” or “faith,” these intellectual constructs exist to make the pseudo-reality seem more plausible, to drag people into participating in it against their will, and to distinguish those who “can see,” “are awake,” or “believe” from those who cannot or, as it always eventually goes, will not. That is, they are the pretext to tell people who inhabit reality instead of pseudo-reality that they’re not looking at “reality” correctly, which means as pseudo-reality. This will typically be characterized as a kind of willful ignorance of the pseudo-reality, which will subsequently be described paradoxically as unconsciously maintained. Notice that this puts the burden of epistemic and moral responsibility on the person inhabiting reality, not the person positing its replacement with an absurd pseudo-reality. This is a key functional manipulation of pseudo-realists that must be understood. The ability to recognize this phenomenon when it occurs and to resist it is, at scale, the life and death of civilizations.

Adoption of a pseudo-reality tends to hinge upon a lack of ability or will to question, doubt, and reject them and their fundamental presuppositions and premises of the pseudo-reality. Therefore, the “logical” and “moral” systems that operate within the pseudo-reality will always seek to manufacture this failure wherever they can, and successful pseudo-realist attacks will evolve these features like a social virus until their effectiveness is very high. This deficiency is often the direct result of mental illness, usually paranoia, schizoidia, anxiety, or psychopathy, however, so maintaining and manufacturing these states in themselves and normal people is strongly incentivized by the false “logic” and false “morality” of the ideological pseudo-reality. That is, the methods and means applied in service to a pseudo-reality will create and manipulate psychological weaknesses in people to get them to carry water for a destructive lie. The nicer, more tolerant, and more charitable a community is, supposing it lacks the capacity to spot these counterfeits early on, the more susceptible its members will tend to be to these manipulations.”

(Part 1)

OP posts:
AdHominemNonSequitur · 18/02/2021 14:09

Great post. I never considered myself a feminist (beyond thinking women and men are equal) because though feeling very grateful to second wave feminists for all they had won for me, I was privelleged, hot, single and could do anything I wanted. I thought we had fixed it. After having kids I realised that all was not quite equal. I tried reading some current feminist literature when my kids were babies, stumbled across what I expect was Butler on Queer Theory, and though holy fuck what a pile of unadulterated, steaming bollocks. Word salad of the highest caliber and carried on with my life. After the frankly batshit response to the JKR statement, knowing a well adjusted and happy trans woman in real life and a having had a bizarre interaction with an old friend when I discussed what I though was a overreaction JKR reaction, I started looking into the phenomenon. I think I may have seen a BBC documentary on a worrying increase in girls in GIDS a few years earlier but other than that I was not aware of anything odd. First I found Deborah Soh and then Linsay and Pluckrose on postmodern theory. It now makes full sense, but it also explains the JKR thing. They (probably mainly adult transitioning trans people) were living in their pseudo reality, using a lobby group to secretly change law and influence political parties, lib fems and HR departments and get people to join them in their pseudo reality and only a tiny group of university academics, scientists, rad fems and lesbians spushing back. When along comes JKR who really publically stated actual reality to a huge audience. No wonder they were reeling. No wonder she got such hate. I have engaged with TRA's on Twitter, I spent a week trying to calmly reason with a 20 person pile on, being called every name under the sun for being unkind (I got called Nazi, Transphobe, homophobe, misogynist, cruel, a Terf, arsehole, cisscum, alt-right but I was the unkind one) and am now convinced that the ones I was talking to at least are not being cynical, they truly believe the mantras, they have fully suspended reality and they are selectively exposed to all manner of things which reinforces it. One of them was a kiwi and came up with a Guardian article which talks about multiple Trans Women seeking assylum in New Zealand and getting in due to intolerable transphobia and cruelty in the UK. I tried to argue that we have very robust equality law and that Trans people were trying to get in to the UK on the basis of transphobia elsewhere, but she is convinced trans women are being physically attacked on a daily basis here. Statistics I showed them are made up, studies discredited, equality laws "don't mean that". It did occur to me that the Guardian is not behind a paywall and that it's business model is a targetted click bait type model like Cambridge analytica did with the Trump elections and Brexit, so may be being manipulated a bit by paying customers''(I'm pretty sure that the user attention/data mining of big tech is not pseudo reality it's been pretty well documented)
This is that Guardian article:
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/12/british-transgender-woman-given-residency-in-safer-new-zealand
I would say it is outright untrue.

NecessaryScene1 · 18/02/2021 14:22

Authoritarism always follows this same pattern. Its a fail safe way to spot.

Yes. And a lot of people have seen it in their lifetimes. There are lots of immigrants from places like Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, China, now living in the west, and seeing what's happening, and trying to shake people out of their complacency. For example, I know a lot of people are Triggernometry fans on this board - both the hosts have that sort of immigrant background, from Venezuela and Russia respectively.

Comfortable native Westerners are refusing to see the real patterns, as they've never experienced it first-hand and haven't really thought about what the lead-up to truly authoritarian societies looks like, but there are lots here who do know.

Maya Forstater is amplifying the message.

She had another good post recently - an essay that Heather Heying has also been referring to a lot:

The Power of the Powerless

RedToothBrush · 18/02/2021 14:42

This is where gaming comes in.

It allows you to suspend reality if such a huge percentage of your life isnt real.

I'm sure this was the entry drug for my brother. He stopped operating on uk time, joined a community where he could be something else, flaked out from university and my parents bailed him out financially. At every point in his life he was enabled and there was no reality. The same goes for everyone similar in his group.

Lots of perfect storm timing going on for many pseudo realities to be all appearing at the same time.

Its also about the luxury of free time and life efforts not all being channelled into pseudo realities.

Those who create pseudo realities can only be privileged. Its the nature of the beast and the dynamics of having power.

Thelnebriati · 18/02/2021 15:01

Pseudo realities are attractive for the same reason that totalitarian regimes are attractive; they use the Karpman Drama Triangle dynamic and offer a (false) psychological rescue.
The game is more attractive than reality, it feeds a need. Emotionally healthy people are less inclined to get snared in the first place because they don't crave approval from others.

The way we resist them is the same way we resist getting ensnared in the drama triangle. Don't play the crazymaking game. Have faith in yourself.

malloo · 18/02/2021 15:57

Thank you for this, I was just saying yes, yes, YES all the way through it.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 18/02/2021 16:36

Me too, malloo.

Darcinian · 18/02/2021 16:51

I grew up in Norn Iron. This topic reminds me of an old joke we told

An incomer to Belfast chats to a local. Before long he is asked the moat important question:

Local: Are you Protestant or Catholic?
Incomer: Neither, I'm an atheist (or a Jew in other tellings)
Local, earnestly: Yes but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist? (A Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?)

OldCrone · 18/02/2021 21:59

I think those excerpts say a lot about where we are now, but nothing about how we got here. How did it start? With cults, there is normally a charismatic leader. With more individual situations there is a single person in a household taking control.

It's now worldwide and it's captured so many people as useful idiots, which means it can grow and grow, but what was the original driver? How and where did this start?

7Days · 19/02/2021 00:50

It's a set of conditions.

Universities were captured years ago and the graduates are moving through the ranks into more senior roles, setting agendas as they go.

Trump. Theres nothing more totalising than an ogre of an enemy.

(See also the death of journalism and the rise of social media - also note how a lot of liberal American outlets postponed financial ruin with their Trump outrage shows)

Social media. Which is polarising and entrenches people into a tribe. Once you're in your tribe you tend to stick to it. It is probably just chance which tribe you fall in with. Savvy operators target teen sites and spaces, more chance of being the first political tribe that the users come across.
Leading from that, religion is no longer a force, nor even as something to fight against. Its down on the ground twitching, no longer worth kicking.
But that doesn't stop people wanting meaning, wanting to do good, wanting to be part of a cohesive tribe with common goals. So ideologies fill that gap in the soul. If we had no social media maybe a post secular society would be focussed on feeding the hungry. But with sm talking about feeding the hungry provides much the same psychological comfort so some people will go for the easy route

Leading from the age aspect, we are in a sort of cultural space where youth is valued so much. Ok, always was in terms of beauty and energy, but now there seems to be a sort of moral dimension to it as well. Youth has always been idealistic and we need that. But experience has always been wise, and we need that too. But it seems that respect for people who've seen it before and watched movements and ideals rise and fall has been lost. It's older people who have lost this confidence in themselves also.

I reckon a lot of it has to do with the rapid pace of technological and social change.

Middle age and older people haven't these skills to pass down, and we are confusing that narrow arc of human knowledge with the whole thing.
Even general knowledge. How your mother raised you is now hopelessly outdated, and likely to lead to all sorts of psychological problems according to experts of various stripes. Your mum has nothing to teach you, about being a mum.
And who wants to be past it at 35, or 40? Best not draw attention to the fact you don't agree with the youthful outlook.

Again connected, a lack of historical perspective. When you think of it, the advances of the last century were truly astounding. Look at the gains made by women, gay people, people of colour, to a lesser extent (aisi) disabled people. People don't realise things really could be much worse, and actually was, except for the blink of an eye that was the last 60 to 100 years. If you have a historical perspective you don't ask, why is there poverty and hunger? You ask, why is there now more prosperity than ever before? We are not at the End of History. We are still in the middle of it. It may bend towards justice, but it's like kids in the car saying, are we there yet. This perspective allows 21 year olds to totally disregard the work 65 year olds have done and how hard it was and how what they achieved wasnt inevitable. And 40 year olds, frightened by becoming irrelevant, ostentatiously agreeing with them.

Its fertile soil.

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 19/02/2021 06:58

Late to this one but thank you so much for this. It all makes absolute sense. Especially the treatment of JKR. Essentially she was pointing out that the Emperor was naked.

Thank you JKR for everything you have done, and for standing with us, and shining a light. 💐

NecessaryScene1 · 19/02/2021 07:21

It's a set of conditions.

Good stuff, don't disagree with any of that. Here's my slightly broader take.

It's a combination of a lot of different people finding the ideology convenient for their personal goals, combined with it not directly hurting any organised groups with power.

So there's incentive to take it up, there's personal incentive to not fight back (you don't want to be a witch when a witch-hunt starts), and the "adults" in the room aren't taking it seriously due to complacency.

You get bet that corporations and the rich will spot unionisation or anything being demanded of them coming a mile off and work to stop it before it can even get started.

Whereas the nominal "identity politics" religion here doesn't really touch their bottom line, so they're happy to ignore it or even wave the flag.

And they're as complacent as most of the rest of the population are about the incipient authoritarian threat of this ideology. And, even then, authoritarianism doesn't necessarily hurt the rich and powerful - they can always buy influence with those making the decisions. Okay, perhaps it might end up with total societal collapse, hurting everyone, but that's a distant "slow" threat, like climate change. Hard to take urgently.

It's the presence or lack of powerful pushback that is, in my opinion, the most significant thing. Anything can gain traction with the smallest incentive if there's no effective resistance.

So the best thing we can do for all this is consciousness-raising - try to make the issues widely-known enough that politicians (and companies?) have to fear the electoral/financial consequences of going along with it from the public. We may not be individually powerful, but we have the numbers. Carry on forming groups like WPUK or LGB Alliance to marshall the forces.

It's interesting to see James Lindsay's approach - he understands exactly what's at stake, and is clearly trying all sorts of approaches at different intellectual levels - from Twitter baiting to long-form essays like this - to shake people out of their complacency.

Here he is discussing it with politicians yesterday - with one of the believers in the discussion helping him make his point rather well:

AdHominemNonSequitur · 19/02/2021 13:59

@NecessaryScene1 You are right to be suspicious of grand all encompassing theories, looking for a simple explanation is very seductive when inexplicable stuff starts to happen, but in this case I do think it is probably driven, rather than a spontaneous movement that is conveniently unthreatening to authority. The other thread on the open letter to Twitter has a really excellent post by @molesmoke, which points out all the ways that top down stuff is happening. People who have a shitton of money already, want power. Philanthropy buys influence, influence buys power and pseudo realities are both a way to wield power and a way to be at the top of the new hierachy you helped to create. If you can't get into the aristocracy, tear down the aristocracy and make yourself a communist party official. Job done.

I love Lindsay, I think he is spot on and he has balls, but I did watch him slowly unravel on twitter and he is applying his theory to everything now, including Covid, which is dangerous (though I suppose I would say that if I was in a Covid lockdown pseudo reality).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4169109-Change-petition-in-place-to-remove-all-GC-voices-from-Twitter

OldCrone · 19/02/2021 14:17

Its fertile soil.

It is, but that still doesn't tell me where the seed came from. How did this start? I can see how it's grown and how it continues to grow, but there is no obvious beginning. In order to get to its current self-perpetuating point, there had to be a movement which was already in existence and already had enough traction to gain more adherents.

Universities were captured years ago and the graduates are moving through the ranks into more senior roles, setting agendas as they go.

Captured by whom? Or what? Who were the people who had the power to do this from the start? What was their objective? Was it to end up where we are now, or was it just a 'game' to see where we would end up?

Anything can gain traction with the smallest incentive if there's no effective resistance.

We know now that groups like Press for Change were campaigning in the 90s (possibly earlier?) for what eventually became the GRA. There wasn't much resistance to this in parliament (after the ECtHR ruling), and the public barely knew it was happening.

How did a barely noticed act in parliament to help a tiny number of extremely distressed people change, in not much more than a decade, to 'a man is a woman if he says he is' being the only acceptable point of view?

Did this all grow out of a genuine campaign for trans rights?

DaisiesandButtercups · 19/02/2021 14:54

Some realised the logical conclusion of this when the GRA went through.

The Hansard of the debate reveals all the fears and questions around it.

If I correctly understand the academic quotes then exactly what happened and continues to happen is that ordinary people credit those who are either mentally unwell or opportunistic and power hungry with reasonable mental health and good intentions.

It all sounds so crazy and it couldn’t possibly happen leads to complacency and the cover of disbelief of the ordinary, relatively mentally healthy majority.

If the structures are all in place then it doesn’t require a leader or coordinated approach. Many individuals and separate groups will take advantage of it naturally because it suits their own goals and aims.

This is like the cells approach in activism or terrorism. Working entirely separately towards the same goal can be a powerful approach. In this case there may be a variety of reasons why people would seek the destruction of societal norms and the consolidation of power in the hands of the mob. Believing that the mob can be controlled is playing with fire however.

Structures in institutions can be such as to nurture bullying behaviours or to make bullies uncomfortable and sanction bullying behaviour.

A bit like that but applied to the whole cultures and societies.

I suppose psychopaths and narcissists are always looking to remove boundaries, gain power or attention and get their kicks or supply and I have read that the more intelligent among them tend to rise to positions of power in government and other important institutions.

So pseudo realities rely on the complacency of the mentally well and well meaning. They don’t need a leader, they just need the right structures in place to enable proponents of pseudo realities to impose on others??? Maybe...

7Days · 19/02/2021 15:25

I think the soil is IT.

I didnt mention in my previous post about the Universities having fallen under the away of the post modernists. First in literature. Then in the broader humanities. The post structuralists were obsessed with language. How it constructs reality, how words have multiple meanings, how language serves the powerful and how it can be used to shape what we think we know.
Very illuminating lens to view literature from. Interesting when it comes to history and social science. Gets less so as you carry on through the departments.
And of course, academics were the original Hot Takers. To get ahead, get noticed, you must dazzle more than the next guy. So you can see how it would spread and be applied everywhere. Now these ideas are ^hegemonic' among the educated.
Words can mean anything is a foundational pseudo reality imo.

There are seeds to suit any soil. Plant them and they will gallop ahead.

Take the TRA's. We want dignity and rights. Reasonable and fair of course.
Most people want to believe themselves to be good and decent. Especially since we no longer glorify nationalists and military leaders, we glorify civil rights leaders instead. So this is the new civil rights fight, all right thinking support it. Indeed can become heroes ourselves for little effort.

Environmental movements attract more push back because it hurts billionaires and it is inconvenient for the ordinary person to do.
Workers rights are a bit Last Century, plus hurt billionaires.
Ending poverty in the developing world is a bit white saviour, nobody wants to dip their toes in possibly racist waters.

So the current circumstances certainly favour some ideas above others, as nd when the critical mass starts growing it becomes a snowball

If language constructs reality, we can see why the push to make words mean what best serves the politics comes from.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 19/02/2021 15:43

Did this all grow out of a genuine campaign for trans rights?

I think a genuine campaign for trans rights was highjacked by an ideologically driven movement based on highly theoretical nonsense, that suited a cohort of adult onset Trans identifying people, which was then picked up by "philantropic" trans women and medical/pharma foundations with a vested interest in the pseudo reality and then accelerated by wealthy lobby groups who had achieved civil rights for gay/trans people so no longer had a role.

DaisiesandButtercups · 19/02/2021 15:45

Maybe a bit of a tangent but the concept that “language constructs reality” reminds me of the work of Suzette Haden Elgin, the Native Tongue Trilogy.

Yes it does explain some of the reasons behind the push for changing definitions of words in law and also reducing the number of words we use as highlighted by Orwell. Words lose meaning and cover more meaning. It becomes harder to be specific or clear in what we are saying.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 19/02/2021 15:59

AdHominenem, I’ve read that article in the Guardian and I notice the transwoman didn’t have to produce any evidence of frequent verbal and physical assaults from strangers, including being stalked, pushed off pavements and screamed at. She also had people grab her breasts.

The TW’s lawyer produced news cuttings about transphobic crimes in the UK, none of them apparently relating to this TW.

So a New Zealand immigration tribunal apparently accepted this person on the basis of their unverified story and some news cuttings about other people.

I’ve experienced all those things too, but that’s just life for a woman.

Gotta run now, grab a bunch of news stories about violent crimes against women and a ticket to NZ ....

BitOfFun · 19/02/2021 16:06

I've just been reading The Cult Of Trump (it's written by an escaped Moonie!), and it is fascinating. So many parallels to other situations I can think of too.

NecessaryScene1 · 19/02/2021 16:48

I do think it is probably driven, rather than a spontaneous movement that is conveniently unthreatening to authority.

Oh, sure, there are some individuals working very hard like those US trans billionaires whose names I forget.

But even given tons of money to plough in, it wouldn't be effective without all the other conditions being right. It's the difference between pushing a boulder downhill and uphill. They're able to adjust the course a bit downhill, but it's mainly gravity, and they wouldn't do anything uphill.

And I guess I'm just wary of overstating the individual stuff just from a strategic point of view - makes us sound like conspiracy theorists :)

And of course, academics were the original Hot Takers. To get ahead, get noticed, you must dazzle more than the next guy.

And it's easier to dazzle with bullshit than something actually new and significant. Particularly in the social sciences. With the massive increase in university intake, they've been building huge houses of cards of nonsense in there.

The original post-modernists had somewhat moved on, but it got picked up by a new generation of even more mediocre and less-grounded thinkers as part of this cesspool.

Demonstrating the state of those parts of academia was Lindsay's previous great contribution, along with Pluckrose and Boghassian.

Fantastic interview on that topic here from the other day. The look on his interviewer's face as you go through this is priceless, as he realises the full horror of how bad those fields are.

Reviews from YouTube comments:

May I humbly suggest that this discussion video be titled "Good Innocent Man Comes Face to Face With Evil."

Interesting to see Lowery's face of shock and confusion at certain times. I've been following this nonsense for a few years but I forget how many people are still out there that really don't know how bad it is.

I just watched a man die on the inside.

AdHominemNonSequitur · 19/02/2021 19:33

@NecessaryScene1
Good points. So more oportunistic than Machievalian you think?

RedToothBrush · 19/02/2021 22:46

Its driven by technology change in communication which puts the balance of power off kilter. There then follows a power struggle.

Its a repeating cycle.

So timing. Which then triggers opportunitistic exploitation of the situation.

Who was best placed to take this into politics? The gamer generation. Mostly male. Used to a certain culture online in entertainment which has then spilled out into the rest of the world.

DH describes it as gamification of the world.

Stuff that happened in gaming 10 - 15 years ago in online worlds is now happening in real world avenues. Its the exact same power dynamics, language use and techniques which have been honed to perfection.

MNet has something of a unique standing in this context too.

RedToothBrush · 19/02/2021 22:47

In 1996 i was writing essay about whether i thought there would be a 'broadband' revolution.

In a class of 30, 3 of us said yes.

The gamers and those who were meeting people on forums in real life.

RedToothBrush · 19/02/2021 22:48

Bowie made some interesting remarks about the subject in about 1999 ish too...

RadandMad · 21/02/2021 11:00

I used to spend a lot of time listening to James Lindsay talking about this, up until the point he referred to feminists as 'schizoid' (most recent interview with Benjamin Boyce), plus merrily conflating things like BPD with NPD, which annoys the hell out of me because despite both being Cluster B personality disorders they are not the same at all. But my main problem with Lindsay is that he's a misogynist who often reveals his underlying contempt for women.