Sex in the Census; joint statement

[ConservativesForWomen]

Issued at 8pm tonight. Please share wherever you can.

"On Sunday 21 February we will launch a website with guidance on how to take simple action to take part in the census, whilst also sending a clear message to the ONS."

shorturl.at/gptJ8

MC are delighted to be part of this collective statement, and in such good company. We will continue to support this campaign because sex matters.... #SexNotGender #Census2021

Excellent. Will make sure DH and I have a good look at the website before completing the census. This is one area of life we actually agree on!

Glad there's join action!

But will wait to see what they suggest.

It is obvious from the mumsnet threads that we have varying opinions.

Not sure why this join action is being aimed at those filling in the Census as if we weren't capable of thinking for ourselves.

Surely it would be much better if their was join action against those imposing this on us.

Sounds a bit back to front - or basically throwing in the towel.

Quite honestly if it is now too late to change should just fill in the Sex question honestly. Ignore the gender question. And then when only .o1% of the population fill in the gender question subtract that number from the number of those who say they are of the female sex! (To ensure statistical accuracy!!)

@stumbledin

Glad there's join action!

But will wait to see what they suggest.

It is obvious from the mumsnet threads that we have varying opinions.

Not sure why this join action is being aimed at those filling in the Census as if we weren't capable of thinking for ourselves.

Surely it would be much better if their was join action against those imposing this on us.

Sounds a bit back to front - or basically throwing in the towel.

Quite honestly if it is now too late to change should just fill in the Sex question honestly. Ignore the gender question. And then when only .o1% of the population fill in the gender question subtract that number from the number of those who say they are of the female sex! (To ensure statistical accuracy!!)

I am certain that this joint action on completing the census is as well as concerted actions behind the scenes to get the guidance changed. According to Maya’s Twitter feed a leaflet encouraging self-identification was removed from the ONS website yesterday evening.

Just because people aren’t telling us what is going upon doesn’t mean things aren’t going on; nobody is throwing in the towel.

And then when only .o1% of the population fill in the gender question
Problem is, I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people fill in the gender question. I can imagine people who have never really thought about this just shrugging their shoulders and saying their gender identity does match their birth sex... the very fact that the question is phrased to give that option might suggest to many people that they are 'meant' to fill it in (it could just say tick this box if your gender identity does not match your birth sex).

This is great to hear and also to see those organisations openly uniting too.

Agree. They could have had a sex box and a tick this box if your gender identity doesnt match your sex box. Anyone wanting accurate sex data could then ignore responses where that box is ticked because the sex data is likely to be unreliable. Given that it's anonymous it seems bizarre not to just ask for your sex at birth though.

Problem is, I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people fill in the gender question. I can imagine people who have never really thought about this just shrugging their shoulders and saying their gender identity does match their birth sex...

I agree.

The wording of the gender identity is equally a problem because it may assume that gender identity is an established fact and can lead the ONS to state that N% of the population identify as the c word.

I don’t have a gender identity that matches or is different to my birth sex - not because I am trans/non-binary, but because I don’t have a gender identity.

If the question is if you have a gender identity that is different to your birth sex please answer Q.2, it is leading and falsely loaded and prevents me from answering truthfully. If I don’t answer that question - will it be on record that I consider myself to be the C word?

Is there a fine for writing profanities on the census?

When my great grandchildren look me up
in 100 years, I want them to know I didn’t buy into this shit.

I would have liked a question asking 'do you have a gender identity?' and if you select yes then a box to write what it is but it would be modern heresy to suggest having a gender identity was optional.

twitter.com/notCursedE/status/1361964448152510464?s=20

TRAs not taking the census seriously? Surely not.

If transwomen (or transmen) don't complete the sex question accurately - and if SM is anything to go by many intend to give a self-ID response - that will make both the gender-ID question and, more significantly, the sexual orientation question, harder to extrapolate factual data from.

In particular, if a transwoman ticks 'female' and 'lesbian', the data becomes meaningless. In fact I think the sexual orientation has included 'lesbian/gay' as a single category so I suppose it's meaningless anyway?

I'm starting to wonder what exactly the point of the census is TBH, and who on earth designed it. They clearly weren't very bright. Or maybe bright but entirely captured by lobby groups who wish to privilege 'gender' over 'sex' and to render lesbians invisible/obsolete.

It's a total mess.

Sorry if you are a campaign group that you want people to support you dont do deals behind the scenes.

Why is anyone presuming they can give guidance to how any of us should respond.

If you are a campaign group get on with campaigning and reporting back.

Surely at this stage it would be much more proactive to be supporting the legal action being sought by the one group exclude from those who have taken it upon themselves to tell us how to think.

Additionally there is a factual error on the home page of the new web site.

As I said on another thread as the census is used for not just central but local government surely a letter writing campaign to local papers pointing out the deceit of the sex question, and that the gender question is just pandering to a tiny few (ie I bet there are more identifying as Jedi than any gender) and the implication for women's services.

Its just such a bizarre concept to have come up with.

The point of campaigns is to engage with and respond to likely supporters, not treat them as docile followers.

I don't see why a coordinated protest that will be more effective than lots of different responses is a bad thing. Lots of us have already written to our MPs, the ONS and Liz Truss. I support FPFW looking at a legal challenge but realistically we are 1 month out from the census and I am unclear how a JR will change things for this census. I would love to hear if anyone can clarify if a legal route could make a difference for the 2021 census.

Not sure why you are pushing for an either/or on this issue Stumbled - or why you think campaigning groups should only use one approach.

No-one is obliged to do whatever it is that the campaign organisers come up with; anyone is at liberty to make an individual response, support a JR, pitch in with the collective, or do bugger all.

None of these groups are funded (as far as I'm aware). They are just ordinary women volunteering their time for free. I appreciate their efforts hugely. Without them we'd be up the creek without a paddle by now as far as women's rights/child safeguarding is concerned.

You are free to ignore them.

@Oldstyle1

If transwomen (or transmen) don't complete the sex question accurately - and if SM is anything to go by many intend to give a self-ID response - that will make both the gender-ID question and, more significantly, the sexual orientation question, harder to extrapolate factual data from.

In particular, if a transwoman ticks 'female' and 'lesbian', the data becomes meaningless. In fact I think the sexual orientation has included 'lesbian/gay' as a single category so I suppose it's meaningless anyway?

I'm starting to wonder what exactly the point of the census is TBH, and who on earth designed it. They clearly weren't very bright. Or maybe bright but entirely captured by lobby groups who wish to privilege 'gender' over 'sex' and to render lesbians invisible/obsolete.

It's a total mess.

Rumour is this year will be the last.

As a family historian I find this sad and troubling.

But at the same time if the integrity of the data is flawed because we live in an era which doesn't value the truth and like disinformation then the census ceases to be useful and instead becomes worse - actively and deliberately misleading.

AFAIK there were so many tweets using the BoycottTheCensus hashtag that it became clear that a coordinated response which could be seen (+ counted) as such, would have more value as a protest than people either boycotting it, or just putting in random individual responses.

Sounds good. Looking forward to hearing more on the 21sr.

More here: twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1360903700697534464?s=20

It is now a census of people noting their fantasies; not of data. Pity the general taxpayer has to fund this.

Wpuk also asked for ideas (generally, not just on question 27) on twitter. I'm sure anyone can put their opinion forward to the of the groups involved with the web site.

I can't imagine that anything could be achieved on the JR before this census - but if they do get permission for a review I'm sure it will have an effect on other demographic data collection projects. It's still important to try.

If ppl join a collective action that the campaign groups suggest, and they have to defend a judicial review, that will make ONS and other data projects (including the Scottish census?) take notice.

I am so pleased there is going to be a concerted response - I was worried all of us responding to protest in our own different ways would risk the message getting lost.

I might identify as a “gender denier”.

I’m not on twitter and I haven’t seen the exact wording of the sex or gender identity questions - but what ever the coordinated response is - and I am in - it needs to ensure that the ONS cannot say this number of people identify as the c word.

So please - for anyone who is going to respond to suggestions, please make this point.

@UppityPuppity

I’m not on twitter and I haven’t seen the exact wording of the sex or gender identity questions - but what ever the coordinated response is - and I am in - it needs to ensure that the ONS cannot say this number of people identify as the c word.

So please - for anyone who is going to respond to suggestions, please make this point.

@MerchedCymru might you be able to help with this?

Diolch

@UppityPuppity
(Good move not being on Twitter, its a time thief).

I wasn't sure how to respond to your post so I'll just go with these thoughts at the mo......

The discussion about the census has been going on for a while. I first cottoned onto it when I attended a WPUK webinar A Womens Place is in the Conversation, Sex in the Census (now available on u tube), what a revelation.

Looking at the materials available online (e.g. the political erasure of sex) weighty serious stuff, well researched and well written - really highlights the calibre of women we have engaged with these groups that are coordinating the response.

We may not be able to change this going forward in March, (so many letters already written and submissions made), but we certainly can make a powerful and coordinated response to get our voices heard.

It will all be outlined via the website, and coordinated to ensure the response is clear and strong. The energy generated by women in groups and individually working together won't leave any doubt as to our feelings. Good to see so many women standing up to be counted! (And I will share your post)

Diolch yn fawr